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Like it or hate it,the following is only my opinion:
A Blue Collar Aprroach to the 10 truths.....
1) I believe in one reality............I am of the universe as well as you.
2) We all have the ability to know everything that exists in the universe but do not use all of our senses.
3) My first reality was being held and knowing I was loved.
4) The second reality is knowing all that exists in the universe I can seek out and choose of my own free will.
5) Anything that man can think of is eventually created.
6) We are all one with the universe and God is in all of us just under different names.
7) There are common questions we all ask. There are even more questions we do not share.
8) The race is over when one no longer desires to question. The fortunate earn inner peace.
9) As many as the stars in the sky all work to keep their distance while belonging to each other.
10) The light at the end of the tunnel is the same one that brings us into existence only from the other side.
This is a common confusion. Alarming and even horrifyingly common. It is almost human basic thinking but very misleading.
(1) truth in the sense of Fact. What is (reality) no matter what humans think about it. Science has the 'best explanation' (screams of protest form Prof. Stavrakopulou) of that. You may claim that 'facts and data changes, but of course the facts are facts and 'data' is constantly updated, but that doesn't invalidate the previous data, as science -skeptics like to claim ("science is always getting things wrong"). Despite Quantum, Newton's laws are still just as valid as when Newton discovered them
(2) truth from the point of view of humanity. Aside from individual conditioning 'true' Reality (what we are and how we think), humanity has grown to be what it is and how we think. Art, music and literature all exist. But they aren't universal truths; they are human constructs. Just as morality, hate and love. Without humans doing them, they wouldn't exist.
Thus such truth and reality depends upon humanity existing at all and upon what we think, either instinctively or by consensus. It is not universal reality in the sense of planets exist, Dinosaurs existed (true even when we knew nothing about them), and quantum does what it does whether we understand it or not.
But Art music and indeed morality (aside from the instinctive basics) are what we say they are. They do not exist apart from humans.
you have locked yourself into a prison of believing that science holds all the answers, that it is an authority rather than a methodology. that is an extreme and sad way of being because you simply have lost perception of seeing beyond a narrow binary.
we have no way of communicating.
you have locked yourself into a prison of believing that science holds all the answers, that it is an authority rather than a methodology. that is an extreme and sad way of being because you simply have lost perception of seeing beyond a narrow binary.
we have no way of communicating.
thats actually not true. Trans is openly for not allowing science to evaluate the reliability of some atheist claims.
he is not only doesn't want ... he is afraid of doing it.
I got to 4 and gave up .
Science provides facts, it doesn't , cannot , address truth.
This is scientism.
I've come to conclude you have a very limited appreciation for what science can do and a rather trusting inclination toward faith when it comes to matters of determining universal truth.
Reality is not truth.
There is no such thing as universal reality or ”true” reality for all of us. Each of us have our own, conditioned by our circumstances, our history, experience, intuition, and ... our truth.
Facts and data are one way of defining reality.
That reality can change when facts and data change, as they often do.
Since this was you first truth from which all the other “truths” flow, it doesn’t quite.
I truly struggle to understand what seems simple to me but awfully complicated to you, and I was tempted to go on, but to a point I think TRANSPONDER does a fair job in the next comment to touch upon where some confusion or inclination needs correcting. Unfortunately, even in TRANSPONDER'S comment, there is what appears persistent confusion about what are universal truths and what are not. I'm not sure how to fix that exactly or how I can try to be any more clear than I have already been...
I truly struggle to understand what seems simple to me but awfully complicated to you, and I was tempted to go on, but to a point I think TRANSPONDER does a fair job in the next comment to touch upon where some confusion or inclination needs correcting. Unfortunately, even in TRANSPONDER'S comment, there is what appears persistent confusion about what are universal truths and what are not. I'm not sure how to fix that exactly or how I can try to be any more clear than I have already been...
your struggle is due to the fact that you have a simplistic understanding of truth and reality.
I decided to finish up tonight. Here are my thoughts on the last five of your ten truths:
I agree completely with your first two statements. I just don’t believe that scientific discovery is ever going to give us answers to certain questions, questions which are clearly important to people all over the world. And to look for scientific answers to those questions is going to lead only to frustration and discouragement. We can either choose to continue to look to science for all the answers or we can look elsewhere for answers we shouldn’t even expect science to give us. We can either shelf the questions entirely or look to an entirely different realm for answers – unless we are going to insist that such a realm (we’ll call it the “supernatural” for lack of a better word) doesn’t even exist and that if we wait long enough, science will come up with the “universal truth” we’re all going to be able to accept. Now I hope I haven’t come across as “anti-science.” That’s the last thing I would describe myself as. Since the sciences were always my most difficult subjects in school, I have a tremendous amount of respect for people whose aptitude is in the arena of science. I also think that it’s entirely possible for people of vastly differing religious belief to learn to respect and understand one another. I don’t think religious differences of opinion inevitably lead to conflict. Of course, with as narrow-minded as some people are, they often do.
Seems you already forgot truth two...
That seeking answers to questions can be frustrating does not mean we should abandon the facts, reason and logic on which the foundation of answering difficult questions should be relied upon. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look elsewhere for answers either, but we should fairly and objectively evaluate how and where we turn for answers and be willing to admit what's what rather than pretend or rely on faith when that's already been proven to be a very faulty proposition for millions of people over the course of human history.
Seems to me it's more an inclination to call it "supernatural" not for lack of a better word but for lack of ability to deal with the frustrations and unknowns you touch upon. What religious or non-religious people can do in terms of respecting the facts, the truth and one another really has no bearing on what the universal truth actually is for all of us. My focus is on the latter, not how well people are able to contend with the challenges inherent when it comes to addressing our unknowns.
Again, what about those things that science can’t teach? Should be simply dismiss those things as not worth concerning ourselves about? A lot of us simply can’t do that. We feel a connection to Someone greater than ourselves and are unable to simply ignore it. We look for answers that are important to us. When we find those answers, we can either use them in such a way that they make us better individuals and see the trials of life from a different perspective. Unfortunately, some who find what they believe to be the answers they were seeking, can’t seem to keep from trying to constantly shove them down other people’s throats.
Perhaps we consider your question a little differently...
What about how science can teach us how to go about evaluating what we think and believe? What matters to us.
I don't know how anything I've suggested implies we should "dismiss those things as not worth concerning ourselves about." Quite the contrary. The more important, the more we should concern ourselves and work toward the best understanding we can muster, about what concerns us. Again the level of that concern should not determine how we go about addressing that concern in terms of applying our mental faculties the best that we can. I'd rather not have to address arguments I'm not making...
you have locked yourself into a prison of believing that science holds all the answers, that it is an authority rather than a methodology. that is an extreme and sad way of being because you simply have lost perception of seeing beyond a narrow binary.
we have no way of communicating.
You have locked your self into a mindset that prevents you from seeing the scientific method as a mental toolbox that allows you to investigate how things are, and instead sees it as a set of restrictive rules that prevents you from believing whatever you like and claiming it as a fact.
Remember -the unknown is an area of infinate possibiloty to be discovered; it is not a hiding place for One Faith - claim out of a myriad others that are dismissed out of hand.
If you cannot see why the rational way is much the better, I truly feel sorry for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
I truly struggle to understand what seems simple to me but awfully complicated to you, and I was tempted to go on, but to a point I think TRANSPONDER does a fair job in the next comment to touch upon where some confusion or inclination needs correcting. Unfortunately, even in TRANSPONDER'S comment, there is what appears persistent confusion about what are universal truths and what are not. I'm not sure how to fix that exactly or how I can try to be any more clear than I have already been...
I accept the point of confusion about universal truths and how discussion (or referencing savants outside) might resolve that.
As a starting -point. Natural laws that would operate even if C19 swept all life from the planet would still work just the same. One Universal truth.
Another are those basics agreed by all humans and indeed animal species. Survival, reproduction. arguing about whether Picard is real Startrek or not. All these things are social universals. Apart from the evolved basics you can put these down as human conventions and the universe couldn't care less.
Hope that clarifies matters.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-13-2020 at 12:03 PM..
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But that's just me.
