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Yep, Atheism means a belief in zero God (s).
This is an understood concept and we are not questioning whether Atheism believes in any God(s)?
Well that is a belief position of atheISTS. One who is an atheIST however is not a party to some actual group or organization called atheISM. In fact, a small minority of atheISTs belong to any sort of organization dedicated to unbelief in gods, and those do not exist to define an atheist orthodoxy ... but to address the concerns and advance the interests of atheists who choose to belong to them. Usually in terms of social equality / social justice.
I am not just being pedantic here. It's an important distinction. Theists are so accustomed to THEIR beliefs being codified in and controlled by an "official" organization that they simply don't get that we atheists don't have that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
Say someone breaks into your house, beats your dog with a metal rod to death, stabs your cat with a sharp knife, rapes your wife, shoots you in the leg, steals your money and is never get caught by law enforcement.
Now, do you think is there anything wrong or something out of balance in this scenario?
Only if I think my life is supposed to be all about me. Sometimes life isn't (or doesn't feel) just or fair. Generally no one wants to hear me whine about it, so I get over it. Also I try to focus on the parts of my life that "just work", or that feel just / fair pleasant. Because that's as much in play as the other stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
If no, then perhaps there is no "right or wrong" for an Athiest.
Wow, that is a strange leap of "logic". In reality, sometimes s__t just happens. I may well still judge it to be a harm and I may well still decide to make meaning for myself by dedicating myself to the prevention or if possible undoing of that harm. Or I may decide to pick some other battle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
If yes, what's Athiesm's opinion/suggestion to balance out this situation or render justice?
Quit being attached to particular outcomes as if you're personally entitled to things going your way, or your ideology's way, or your god's way, etc. Work toward your preferred outcomes all you want, but don't cling to having your rightness / orthodoxy / personal rights as a condition of personal happiness.
But, can you be more British about it? I was really hoping for more of a Ricky Gervais sort of atheist...
-NoCapo
Here you go NoCapo:
Quote:
“Do unto others…” is a good rule of thumb. I live by that. Forgiveness is probably the greatest virtue there is. But that’s exactly what it is ‐ a virtue. Not just a Christian virtue. No one owns being good. I’m good. I just don’t believe I’ll be rewarded for it in heaven. My reward is here and now. It’s knowing that I try to do the right thing. That I lived a good life. And that’s where spirituality really lost its way. When it became a stick to beat people with. “Do this or you’ll burn in hell.”
You won’t burn in hell. But be nice anyway.
In my opinion. you are avoiding the question. And it's OK.
No, never heard of Phil Robertson.
You haven't asked anything that can be answered truthfully. You got the honest answer. There is no answer.
You could learn a lot by going to the Atheism & Agnosticism forum and read old threads for a couple of weeks. From your posts, you don't show that you understand Atheists or Agnostics.
Yep, Atheism means a belief in zero God (s).
This is an understood concept and we are not questioning whether Atheism believes in any God(s)?
Athiesm's opinion to render justice to anyone who is dead is not possible since death neutralizes them. We discussed and understood this part.
The point where we at now is,
"Atheism's opinion about injustice done to a party that is alive.
Say someone breaks into your house, beats your dog with a metal rod to death, stabs your cat with a sharp knife, rapes your wife, shoots you in the leg, steals your money and is never get caught by law enforcement.
Now, do you think is there anything wrong or something out of balance in this scenario?
If no, then perhaps there is no "right or wrong" for an Athiest.
If yes, what's Athiesm's opinion/suggestion to balance out this situation or render justice?
During lunch I got together with a bunch of my atheist buddies and presented your question.
We would find this criminal and give him/her a shellacking "non-believer" style, and trust me you don't want that.
And furthermore, if our spouse died in the attacked it would be a double shellacking "non-believer" style due to the lose of a tax deduction.
Since we don't have to worry about that pesky hell its woe betide the person who crosses the atheist.
Your question makes as much sense as asking if people who ride the bus to work like pizza. The two are completely unrelated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
You haven't asked anything that can be answered truthfully. You got the honest answer. There is no answer.
You could learn a lot by going to the Atheism & Agnosticism forum and read old threads for a couple of weeks. From your posts, you don't show that you understand Atheists or Agnostics.
AS atheists though, we do have opinions about things.
I tend to think (I suspect) that what the OP is trying to get to the bottom of is: - that in many religious and particularly Christian concepts, justice will be served in the afterlife and all will be good in the end. He (she?) is probably trying to understand this from a non-religious perspective. I'm not offended by the question.
It is possible that some people come here to actually learn something (we can live in hope right?)
AS atheists though, we do have opinions about things.
I tend to think (I suspect) that what the OP is trying to get to the bottom of is: - that in many religious and particularly Christian concepts, justice will be served in the afterlife and all will be good in the end. He (she?) is probably trying to understand this from a non-religious perspective. I'm not offended by the question.
It is possible that some people come here to actually learn something (we can live in hope right?)
I always try to think the best of people. If the OP hadn't brought the Duck Dynasty logic into the conversation I might have thought he/she was asking a question in a kind way.
I would have to opine the OP wasn't trying to be kind.
From the Atheist point of view,
How is or should justice be rendered to, for example, Hitler and his victims who are not alive?
You know atheist and non-atheist render justice on the dead all the time. We consider the trial and conviction of murders as doing justice for the dead. We bestow posthumous awards upon those who were not recognized in life. However in your example, there is simply no justice that can be afforded to the dead.
Yep, Atheism means a belief in zero God (s).
This is an understood concept and we are not questioning whether Atheism believes in any God(s)?
Athiesm's opinion to render justice to anyone who is dead is not possible since death neutralizes them. We discussed and understood this part.
The point where we at now is,
"Atheism's opinion about injustice done to a party that is alive.
Say someone breaks into your house, beats your dog with a metal rod to death, stabs your cat with a sharp knife, rapes your wife, shoots you in the leg, steals your money and is never get caught by law enforcement.
Now, do you think is there anything wrong or something out of balance in this scenario?
If no, then perhaps there is no "right or wrong" for an Athiest.
If yes, what's Athiesm's opinion/suggestion to balance out this situation or render justice?
I'll try to say this in a slightly different way even though I think others have articulated the concept pretty well.
There_is_no_doctrinal_atheism. Little "a" is all thats required. There is no "we atheists are..." aside from commonly withholding belief in any particular gods until there is suitable evidence (which might vary from person to person) to do so.
We are as diverse as any collective of people who might have a single thing in common. Go to a sports stadium, and ask "do [x] fans believe in justice?" and it is equally as applicable, since the point of atheistic thinking is not to comprise a set of values and beliefs to adhere to....it is simply the lack of such belief.
Your question would likely make more sense and be more appropriate to ask of a Humanist, or other similarly organized group based upon worldview & values, where many of the members might be atheists.
The point where we at now is,
"Atheism's opinion about injustice done to a party that is alive.
Say someone breaks into your house, beats your dog with a metal rod to death, stabs your cat with a sharp knife, rapes your wife, shoots you in the leg, steals your money and is never get caught by law enforcement.
Now, do you think is there anything wrong or something out of balance in this scenario?
If no, then perhaps there is no "right or wrong" for an Athiest.
If yes, what's Athiesm's opinion/suggestion to balance out this situation or render justice?
Your hypothetical scenario is certainly a horrible situation, and it would be best if the perpetrator were to be caught and sentenced to a suitable punishment. I am sure that atheists, theists, poly theists, and every other shade of belief will agree to this.
However, if the perpetrator does get away with it, there is nothing to be done. We don't know who did it, there is no sense of closure, and as a survivor I would be angry.
This really has nothing to do with your stance on god-belief though. Theists can presume some sort of karmic retribution, but that doesn't mean that this sort of justice actually exists. It only means that theists WANT it to exist.
We can go one step further, and address your scenario using Christian theology. Let's assume all of that happens, the guy gets away, commits five similar crimes, gets away with those as well, the. Converts to Christianity on his death bed.
Under most Christian belief systems, the perpetrator goes to heaven. Where is the justice in this scenario?
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Do atheists believe in Justice.
