does agnostic = atheism or vice versa (church, atheist, bible, worship)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
so does the following set of questions have any logic:
1st....is there a god? typical response(s): yes, no and I don't know
2nnd....do you believe in god?
now if you answered yes to (1), then the 2nd should be yes as well.
if you answered no to (1), then the 2nd should be no as well.
but what if you answered "i don't know"?
shouldn't logic then conclude that your answer to question (2) is "no" as well?
As I heard it the other day, agnostics and atheists are really two peas in the same pod but agnostics just have a hard time admitting it and taking the next step.
As an example (call it good or bad, IDC), if you call yourself an agnostic you cannot be a youth or adult member of the BSA....
"As I heard it the other day, agnostics and atheists are really two peas in the same pod but agnostics just have a hard time admitting it and taking the next step"
And.....if the agnostic is having a hard time taking a step in the other direction? Do you see where this goes?
Yes, some atheists were agnostics before they decided they were atheists, but that doesn't mean one can not be a theist or deist, become agnostic, then go back to theist or deist.
The Catholic Church has interesting definitions. Atheism is the sacrilegious refusal of a Creator for the values of the free worship of personal gratification and perhaps self-love. On the other hand Agnosticism is the deliberate transcendental mentalising of other beings for the explanation of false as well as deceiving ideals for the explanation of ordinary Creation. Not to mention there is the mere faith applied to forms of worship not sanctioned in the decision to be a member of the original Church itself.
The Catholic Church has interesting definitions. Atheism is the sacrilegious refusal of a Creator for the values of the free worship of personal gratification and perhaps self-love. On the other hand Agnosticism is the deliberate transcendental mentalising of other beings for the explanation of false as well as deceiving ideals for the explanation of ordinary Creation. Not to mention there is the mere faith applied to forms of worship not sanctioned in the decision to be a member of the original Church itself.
Um, yeah.......The catholic church has nothing meaningful to add to this; this is evidenced by your answer.
so does the following set of questions have any logic:
1st....is there a god? typical response(s): yes, no and I don't know
2nnd....do you believe in god?
now if you answered yes to (1), then the 2nd should be yes as well.
if you answered no to (1), then the 2nd should be no as well.
but what if you answered "i don't know"?
shouldn't logic then conclude that your answer to question (2) is "no" as well?
As I heard it the other day, agnostics and atheists are really two peas in the same pod but agnostics just have a hard time admitting it and taking the next step.
As an example (call it good or bad, IDC), if you call yourself an agnostic you cannot be a youth or adult member of the BSA....
Any thoughts?
The Atheist and Theist have proclaimed absolutes the Agnostic simply proclaims he does not know. It's that simple.
so does the following set of questions have any logic:
1st....is there a god? typical response(s): yes, no and I don't know
2nnd....do you believe in god?
now if you answered yes to (1), then the 2nd should be yes as well.
if you answered no to (1), then the 2nd should be no as well.
but what if you answered "i don't know"?
shouldn't logic then conclude that your answer to question (2) is "no" as well?
As I heard it the other day, agnostics and atheists are really two peas in the same pod but agnostics just have a hard time admitting it and taking the next step.
As an example (call it good or bad, IDC), if you call yourself an agnostic you cannot be a youth or adult member of the BSA....
Any thoughts?
I consider the two completely different. Actually I would consider an Atheist to be closer in mindset to that of a Christian or other organized religion than that of an Agnostic.
There is a common thread between those who know that their god is the one true god and those who know that there is no god whatsoever. There's a vanity in either belief, I find an Agnostic view to be much more humble.
See,m here's how it is for us godless atheists.....
Now, frankly, as a strictly scientific answer, from a very strict scientist, I'd have to "admit" that I cannot absolutely falsify the possible existence of a Godly entity. But we all need to put down our foot sometime, right? To "plant the flag" so to speak, at some point in our limited lifetimes if we hope to be functional and not hopelessly psychotic or jittery.
For me, this amounted to considering all the masses of well-proven evidence that absolutely & categorically refutes every supernatural event in the literalist bible, and it's associated God & son of same. As well, there's that little issue that to date no-one has EVER been able to physically or even spiritually summon up that God. Not even for a brief cameo appearance for our local Catholic Charity dinner, to help the less fortunate!
And despite the pending catcalls and ad hominems, I'm going on record as saying that NEVER has prayer absolutely and unambiguously worked. For anyone. I've known far too many sick people who have died desperately praying for their lives. Nope. Never worked yet. Not to mention the real "acid test": God rejuvenating an amputee's missing limb. Heck; He does it for Geckos! I mean, what's with that?
So I've come to the peaceful and workable conclusion that there's not (likely to be) an actual functioning omnipotent God out there.
Plus, as I've argued many times, there's no real NEED for one either, unless the believer just has to have answers to all questions, right NOW! Even if those answers are the rather weak: [i]"It happened because God works in mysterious ways!"[/I For me, as a science-loving "(i.e: answer-finding") scientist, I don't have to have all the answers. I pretty much know they're out there and on the way sooner or later. Or not. Who cares?
So, to the OP: an atheist like me may well be someone, a once-closet agnostic, who has made that final end-game decision, even in the face of the ultra-micro-tiny-slight possibility that God's just been on a vacation from this sector of the universal galaxy for the past 6000 years, but is due back any eon now... Before I die that is....
If so, He and I will do lunch! But then, if He can guarantee a good tender cut of prime rib plus a bottle of that great 1968 Bargetto late-harvest Zinfandel at a reasonable price, I'll believe in Him. Finally. That should be pretty easy for a true God, wouldn't you say?
Gnosticism/agnosticism respectively refer to whether one believes that the existence or nonexistence of a god can be known or not. Theism/atheism respectively refer to whether one believes in a god or not. So the terms actually have different meanings.
I am an agnostic atheist, because since I think that the existence/nonexistence of a deity cannot be known (agnosticism), it makes no sense to believe in one (atheism).
Agnosticism does not equal atheism. One may be either an gnostic or agnostic theist or an gnostic or agnostic atheist.
so does the following set of questions have any logic:
1st....is there a god? typical response(s): yes, no and I don't know
2nnd....do you believe in god?
now if you answered yes to (1), then the 2nd should be yes as well.
if you answered no to (1), then the 2nd should be no as well.
but what if you answered "i don't know"?
shouldn't logic then conclude that your answer to question (2) is "no" as well?
As I heard it the other day, agnostics and atheists are really two peas in the same pod but agnostics just have a hard time admitting it and taking the next step.
No, that's not right at all.
Christians believe in a personal god, one that interacts with you, you can pray to and one who will grant you ever-lasting life so that you can live in the Dictatorship of Jesus Christ on Earth after he and the Divine Pyromaniac destroy everything on Earth and turn everyone to human torches.
An agnostic would view god as something that one cannot comprehend; as something you wouldn't even recognize if you were staring right at it. The agnostic god is not a personal god. It does not interact in your life and grant favors and answer prayers or anything else. It will not send a plague after you if you fart in church and it will not send bears to maul and eat you if you laugh at someone (like a bald man).
Everyone has their own definitions. Some people make a technical distinction between "knowledge" and "belief."
I don't.
I describe a person who believes a god does exist as a theist.
A person who believes a god does not exist as an atheist.
And a person who doesn't take a position either way as an agnostic.
To me, that best conforms to the everyday usage of the words.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
See,m here's how it is for us godless atheists.....
