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As a counter-anecdote, I myself am senior at a top Bay Area tech company. We actually have a location in RTP. For the life of me, I couldn't find anyone at HQ back in the Bay Area who even knows that our NC location exists, much less understand why I'd ever want to live in NC. A year after relocating back here, I still get, "so you're working remotely right?"
There is a long way to go before this place is even a blip on the radar of most Cali tech people's minds as somewhere desirable or attractive to move. The culture of Silicon Valley being the end-all, be-all center of the universe is extremely pervasive, almost cultish. But it works for them and there's nothing like it.
I think there's a subtext to something you said: "couples who are employees . . . who would jump at the chance to move . . . for the kids to grow up" aka people who prioritize family. Mentioning family is pretty anathema to the Bay Area 25/8 work "drink the Kool Aid" ethos. Family is something that never crosses your lips if you're to be viewed as "all in" with the [amazing/disruptive/game-changing/fill-in-the-blank] greatness that all Bay Area tech companies think they are. The response you'd get is well what does the Bay Area not already get you - some of the best public schools in the nation, safe suburbia, nannies and daycare everywhere for outsourcing a lot of the child-rearing hassles while you make it big, etc.
So spot on. I have said here before there is a snobbishness towards this area by people on the west coast especially now that we have a wanna be dictator for a president and this state voted for him. With that said Apple is already in the suburbs and it's conceivable they would open an office of some kind here. The fact Tim Cook is from the south and went to school here only helps. I am wondering why the news on this went totally silent.
These things take time, and I think some of the blabbing folks just got a bit overeager with their enthusiasm in thinking it a done deal. Here's hoping they didn't screw it up entirely.
So spot on. I have said here before there is a snobbishness towards this area by people on the west coast especially now that we have a wanna be dictator for a president and this state voted for him. With that said Apple is already in the suburbs and it's conceivable they would open an office of some kind here. The fact Tim Cook is from the south and went to school here only helps. I am wondering why the news on this went totally silent.
I'm pretty sure that most companies considering the area are well aware that the RTP area didn't "vote" for Trump.
I mean, you can find chunks of California that "voted" for Trump, too.
California just happened to have more people overall who did not vote for him. NC is a fairly purple state overall, but we have deeper divisions between rural and urban than most of California, where divisions tend to be more on stuff like religion plus being less urban.
Context matters.
And, of course the Bay Area thinks it's better than everywhere else. Look at the boosters for one or the other city ANYWHERE in the world and you will see that is the truth.
But, ask people in the Bay Area who would like to own a home sometime in their lifetimes and you will hear them say they'd like a lower COL.
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These things take time, and I think some of the blabbing folks just got a bit overeager with their enthusiasm in thinking it a done deal. Here's hoping they didn't screw it up entirely.
Yeah... I feel like someone who should not have spoken opened their mouth and that's why everything went silent.
I guess we just wait and see.
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I'm pretty sure that most companies considering the area are well aware that the RTP area didn't "vote" for Trump.
I mean, you can find chunks of California that "voted" for Trump, too.
California just happened to have more people overall who did not vote for him. NC is a fairly purple state overall, but we have deeper divisions between rural and urban than most of California, where divisions tend to be more on stuff like religion plus being less urban.
Context matters.
And, of course the Bay Area thinks it's better than everywhere else. Look at the boosters for one or the other city ANYWHERE in the world and you will see that is the truth.
But, ask people in the Bay Area who would like to own a home sometime in their lifetimes and you will hear them say they'd like a lower COL.
I bet Amazon chooses a state that did not vote for him and that won't be an oversight. Many of the people that work at the top tier tech companies like these are getting paid mid 6 figures if you factor in stock and that does not include 2 person households, they can live wherever they want. In fact some people think higher real estate prices is a sign of where they should live IMO. It also has translated to a more profitable real estate investment historically.
I bet Amazon chooses a state that did not vote for him and that won't be an oversight. Many of the people that work at the top tier tech companies like these are getting paid mid 6 figures if you factor in stock and that does not include 2 person households, they can live wherever they want. In fact some people think higher real estate prices is a sign of where they should live IMO. It also has translated to a more profitable real estate investment historically.
If you think people who make that much money are so well off that they don't care how much real estate prices are, I'll tell you that people would rather live in a place that seems to be trending, pay less for real estate, and have more for retirement, vacations, college funds, paying off their student loans, etc.
I don't think the majority of employees, even at Amazon and Apple, are making 500k a year, or 500k apiece in a dual-income situation.
Is it safe to say that on Bay Area wages, a decent chunk of these people are making 200-300k a year? Sure thing. But, even then, that's not starting wages.
That's also still a squeeze when you want to buy a roomy home and raise kids in an area with higher RE costs.
Not to mention the land costs for the company to buy/build in a given area.
I'm surely not saying that Apple or Amazon WILL come here. I am merely pointing out that this is not a rural backwater and there's a reason IBM, Cisco, and other tech firms came here and it's not just because they're not "cool" enough for people to work there. COL, cost of land, available tech talent... all reasons.
If you want to tell me that Apple and Amazon won't be able to get top talent to live here for jobs, I'll be happy to tell you they are Amazon and Apple.
Note: There are people who live here in this area who could live in the Bay Area with one of the firms who are here in RTP and make wages that would afford a house in the Bay Area, but they don't move there because they can afford more here and they don't want to deal with the traffic.
ETA: If you think Amazon will ignore a state that went for Trump, especially one like NC that wasn't a landslide, just because that state went for Trump, I think you are assuming Jeff Bezos is as thin-skinned as Donald Trump. I disagree. I think, if anything, he'd be more likely to choose the best state for financial reasons and if it was a state that could be flipped (and NC can be flipped), he would get a kick out of importing that much tech talent that leaned Democrat... though, frankly, I'm surprised that people still think all techies are liberals. I can point you in so many directions to show you otherwise.
One of my biggest revelations since the Trump campaign picked up steam was that a lot of Apple fans are Trumpers. I guess I never thought about their politics before, but since people are more open about it online now, I really notice it more. I have zero doubt that there are a good many conservatives in tech who work for Apple and Amazon. They're not wearing MAGA hats to work or anything, but they probably like some of the stuff this admin is trying to do. Especially around immigration.
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These things take time, and I think some of the blabbing folks just got a bit overeager with their enthusiasm in thinking it a done deal. Here's hoping they didn't screw it up entirely.
Apple is pretty serious about leaks. Their business model depends upon keeping things under wraps. If I were them I'd be pretty upset with NC politicians blabbing about the deal before it was done.
If you think people who make that much money are so well off that they don't care how much real estate prices are, I'll tell you that people would rather live in a place that seems to be trending, pay less for real estate, and have more for retirement, vacations, college funds, paying off their student loans, etc.
I don't think the majority of employees, even at Amazon and Apple, are making 500k a year, or 500k apiece in a dual-income situation.
Is it safe to say that on Bay Area wages, a decent chunk of these people are making 200-300k a year? Sure thing. But, even then, that's not starting wages.
That's also still a squeeze when you want to buy a roomy home and raise kids in an area with higher RE costs.
Again this is one employer and merely anecdotal, but my tech company has about 15k employees worldwide, 10k of whom work at our Silicon Valley HQ. Our company has a flexible location policy where anyone is allowed to work at any of our offices for the exact same salary as they earn in Silicon Valley. You know how many people have used that policy to relocate to our RTP location? Fewer than 20 individuals. 20 out of 10,000 when our average compensation after annual stock is in the $250k-350k range. Imagine the type of house and schooling you can get for that. But Silicon Valley types drink the Kool Aid so much that they’d rather be at the center of it all even if it means stretching themselves thin in a tiny little house. This is an unknown quantity and/or the boonies for them.
Of course, all that said, Apple and Amazon will create their own demand and people will move wherever, but there’s very little “in situ” demand or drive to move here by Silicon Valley types.
Again this is one employer and merely anecdotal, but my tech company has about 15k employees worldwide, 10k of whom work at our Silicon Valley HQ. Our company has a flexible location policy where anyone is allowed to work at any of our offices for the exact same salary as they earn in Silicon Valley. You know how many people have used that policy to relocate to our RTP location? Fewer than 20 individuals. 20 out of 10,000 when our average compensation after annual stock is in the $250k-350k range. Imagine the type of house and schooling you can get for that. But Silicon Valley types drink the Kool Aid so much that they’d rather be at the center of it all even if it means stretching themselves thin in a tiny little house. This is an unknown quantity and/or the boonies for them.
Of course, all that said, Apple and Amazon will create their own demand and people will move wherever, but there’s very little “in situ” demand or drive to move here by Silicon Valley types.
I think 250-300k is good money, but I am not a person who thinks this is crazy high income, for what it's worth.
There are plenty in SV, particularly those who are trying their damnedest to grab the brass ring and make it into the c-band somewhere (or get that startup that'll make them rich beyond their wildest dreams off the ground), that are hesitant to move away because they feel like there's nowhere else to do the kind of climbing they want to do. It's kind of like the people who stay near Hollywood to "make it big" even though most of them don't. You cannot convince those types otherwise.
The businesses and where they concentrate themselves set the tone. It's not so much that people want to live in SV, because SV itself isn't exactly exciting from a living standpoint. I say this as someone who has spent weeks there at a time and is very familiar with the place.
The people who moved this way from your company are probably people who aren't trying to climb or who had some other concerns that made the East Coast more desirable.
I do get what you're saying, but I am confident that any company like an Apple or an Amazon could pretty much put a campus WHEREVER they wanted and people would move there to work.
My earlier comment was simply to point out that a place with a lower COL as an OPTION would be something employees, at some point, who are in a higher COL location might appreciate. Because that is actually true.
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Apple is pretty serious about leaks. Their business model depends upon keeping things under wraps. If I were them I'd be pretty upset with NC politicians blabbing about the deal before it was done.
Apple also leaks their own stuff sometimes, just to see how it plays out.
Companies are funny that way.
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