Apple Campus in RTP area? (Raleigh: month to, marketplace, Walmart)
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, CaryThe Triangle Area
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With the lack of truly affordable starter homes here and in many large cities, I'm wondering if we won't see a slow migration away from the high COL places by employers looking to hire good quality workers at lower wages.
Doubt it. America is moving more towards high tech employment and the low-wage labor is being outsourced or automated. Companies are coming to high cost areas because of the education and skills that are available there in concentrated numbers. Urban areas are going to continue to explode and rural communities continue to die.
I think their point about these $400k homes is there is a small subset of the population that buys at that price point. The median household income in Raleigh is under $60k, you'd need around double the median to be in that price point on average. Notwithstanding moving from CA or NY with large down payments.
That baby really flattens after you hit 150k median.
As you mentioned, though, this does not take into account transplants (they make up about half our population) that move here with larger down payments. Also does not take retirees who have houses paid off into account, and some of their homes are obviously going to be worth 400k or more, as they likely made the right amount to buy those homes years ago.
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Doubt it. America is moving more towards high tech employment and the low-wage labor is being outsourced or automated. Companies are coming to high cost areas because of the education and skills that are available there in concentrated numbers. Urban areas are going to continue to explode and rural communities continue to die.
Well isn't that what is going on in the Raleigh area? It's made up of lots of California based employers who have moved large campuses here.
It might be off topic, but it still bears correction.
Here is the difference as I see it.
Paying rent does not offer the same wealth building opportunities as paying a mortgage. Our 19 year old poster is wondering "who can afford a $400,000 house"?
In many cases (including my own) the answer to that question is "someone who worked their way up to that price point by purchasing a less expensive property, renovating/applying sweat equity, and parlaying an equity gain from selling that property into a home at a higher price point". Rinse and repeat.
that was not THT. I copied that to here from another thread. Though based on what I read from the other poster, he's about THT's age.
I think their point about these $400k homes is there is a small subset of the population that buys at that price point. The median household income in Raleigh is under $60k, you'd need around double the median to be in that price point on average. Notwithstanding moving from CA or NY with large down payments.
the facts...
median income of Wake County, first result of Google is $67K. Per this site it's $76K.
Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
$67K @ 28% DTI ratio is ~ $250K mortgage.
the median price of sales in Wake County, last 12 months, is $292K. So, a little less than 20% down is needed.
Let us remember that many in the median income category already own their house, and so purchasing a more expensive house isn't in their plans anyway. The more relevant question would be "what does the average first-time buyer make as household income in Wake County?"
Amazon is pretty well known in the software engineering world, at least from my brother in law who lives up in the PNW, for being a very stressful place to work. He was offered a job but ultimately turned it down.
UPS package handlers start around $9/hr nowadays, no where near that $20/hr especially when min wage was $4.25. When min wage was $5.15 I was making $8.50/hr at UPS as a package sorter back in high school. By far the largest benefit for UPS is the health benefits kick in even for part timers.
on the first point, it's an anecdote as you state.
on the second, I could be wrong (and will check), but I know they were getting paid a multiple of us working easier low-wage jobs.
Amazon is pretty well known in the software engineering world, at least from my brother in law who lives up in the PNW, for being a very stressful place to work. He was offered a job but ultimately turned it down.
UPS package handlers start around $9/hr nowadays, no where near that $20/hr especially when min wage was $4.25. When min wage was $5.15 I was making $8.50/hr at UPS as a package sorter back in high school. By far the largest benefit for UPS is the health benefits kick in even for part timers.
Agreed. Amazon is known for ruthlessly cutting costs to the detriment of its employees and being a very high-stress place to work. This is all explored in the book The Everything Store by Brad Stone.
Even the most bright-eyed kids studying CS and looking for tech internships are often less than enthusiastic about getting an internship at Amazon. It's usually at the bottom of most people's lists in terms of big tech companies. Definitely not on the same level as Google/Facebook in terms of desirability.
I think things like this reveal aspects of the true, inner nature of companies. I just have a hard time reconciling the fact that Amazon would somehow treat Raleigh any differently from its workers.
"things like this reveal the true inner nature of companies" ... do you mean "companies like Amazon", or do you mean what a "company" must be?
I can imagine that working at Amazon isn't nearly as cool as being able to say Google or Facebook. There's basically no brick and mortar, nothing physical or tangible to either of them. They're mysterious and drenched in code - and so if you're creating that code, and the code is "it" there, then you are the business.
Amazon the physical product is essentially a logistics juggernaut, and as mentioned before - the real hot sauce is aws.com now, not ordering Prime Pantry.
Amazon wants to destroy our retailers. Then, they can up prices by making retailers cautious about trying to reenter the show.
Walmart was known for this years ago. Small towns lost their local merchants by predatory pricing.
Amazon does not need bribes. They need to be kept out. Possibly the goal is not a #2 center. It might be a replacement for #1 which is upsetting Amazon by trying to strike back.
As if retail in a brick-and-mortar store is always a high-paying, low-stress job where employees are valued? Not.
The companies with the most to fear from Amazon (and Walmart.com) are the legacy chains like Sears/Kmart, Kroger, Macys, etc that are hardly great places to work. A few chains like Costco have proven to be good or at least decent places to work, but they're the exception.
Local businesses can compete if they have the right business model and execute it sharply.
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