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Well, she's made the point twice and I've understood her, so let me give it a shot.
Typical CD thread:
"HI everyone! My family is moving down next month and we plan on settling near downtown Cary. Can anyone give me an idea what that area is like - playgrounds, nearby houses of worship, good kid friendly restaurants?"
Answer:
"DO YOU HAVE A JOB? MAKE SURE YOU'RE NOT MOVING WITHOUT A JOB!"
The assumption that the vast majority of people are moving without employment is just silly. Aside from that the point that Vicki is making is that
-she has a client with a lot of questions
-she refers them here
-they are told to get a job, whether they ask about employment or not.
It's ANNOYING. We went through the same thing when we were moving here. It's like you have to pass through the magic employment question portal to get any answers here sometimes.
But isn't it somewhat counter-productive to bring that point of view up in a thread created by someone who moved without a job and is trying to warn others about their experience? I can see where the secured job vs. moving blind discussion doesn't belong in every thread, but in this particular thread I see it as much more appropriate than your post.
It's worth noting that the area is not the technology hub it was in the 90's. This statement sums it up:
The burst of the technology bubble in 2001 created enormous shifts in the information technology (IT) employment landscape in the United States as well as within North Carolina. Both computer and peripheral manufacturing and semiconductor manufacturing in North Carolina closely followed national employment trends. In the case of computer and peripheral manufacturing, after dramatic gains in employment in the period 1995-2000 (13% for computer and peripheral manufacturing), the growth flattened out in 2001. Since then, 18,000 workers, or 37% of those working in IT manufacturing in 2001, have lost jobs. In addition, the total number of plants has declined, though less severely.
IBM and Nortel dominated the area during the peak. IBM has scaled back drastically and Nortel is gone. Throw in off-shoring and you complete the picture. Seems as if the 'Research" in RTP has changed from tech to pharms.
I'm currently in Northern Virginia, have lived all over the country, just had a baby, and was considering a relo to Raleigh (for high tech jobs, higher quality of life, friendlier people, more family friendly, be closer to family in Virginia, NC). This news is pretty disturbing. So, NOW where the hell are we going to go? Pittsburgh? Baltimore? Philly?! Yeesh..
I'd say this isn't a warning about moving to this area. It's another example of why people are always told "don't move until you have a job."
Sorry for your troubles.
It's a bit more worrisome than that, because even if you have a job, with the current job market a layoff might be in the future and then if it's hard to find another job the person ends up unemployed for months? years?
When my husband was unemployed for years, he was perfectly willing to accept work way below his pay grade. We had scrimped and saved before. We could have done it again. But companies generally refused to hire anyone making a higher salary, claiming that the person would just up and quit when the economy got better. Unfortunately, we haven't seen the economy improve very much since 2001. This "jobless recovery" nonsense is a joke.
Some companies wanted to hire someone fitting a certain profile. I've often mentioned the hiring manager in Raleigh who told my husband to his face that she was hiring a woman for the job, regardless of a male candidate's qualifications. Period. I guess she didn't like men very much, or the company was pressuring her to do so? Dunno.
So many companies played games. So many. IBM was one of the worst when my husband was job-seeking. Three times they told him he was practically in. Three times they never bothered responding after a certain point. Not even a "drop-dead" letter.
Many companies age-discriminated. My husband found dozens of those. Over-35 meant obsolete. Doesn't matter if you DID keep up your certs. Many didn't want to pay for older workers because they felt that older workers would put a strain on their health insurance and take more sick days.
Some hiring managers loved bandying the words "looking for a great fit". Problem is, what makes a great "fit" is very hard to ascertain. We were convinced that some hiring managers turned people down because they reminded the manager of someone in his or her past, or the manager didn't like people of a certain height or body shape. Or the manager didn't like Yankees. Really. We never could figure out what constituted a "great fit".
And yes ... Heaven helped you if you were unemployed for more than a year. You were obviously garbage. No matter what, you were garbage.
Oh, and my husband had an extensive network and many sterling recommendations. Unfortunately, many of the people he networked with retired, had very selective memories (he helped several of them get a job when they were out on their butts, but they never bothered to try to do the same for him), or tried to help, but the hiring managers blocked their efforts.
Add that to offshoring, companies that are spooked by the economy and are working with skeletal staffs (even though the workload stresses the few personnel in the company), businesses becoming more automated (oh, it's sometimes so much fun trying to talk to a live person on the phone!), etc. etc. and I'm finding it amazing if many people over 35 who are not doctors, lawyers or CEOs can even FIND a job here. Sorry, Mike ... I cannot even vaguely share your positive outlook.
So I do confess that when someone is posting starry-eyed posts about moving here on this forum, my first reaction is indeed "BEWARE!" It's a reflex with me now. I don't want people going through the same thing we went through.
Well, she's made the point twice and I've understood her, so let me give it a shot.
Typical CD thread:
"HI everyone! My family is moving down next month and we plan on settling near downtown Cary. Can anyone give me an idea what that area is like - playgrounds, nearby houses of worship, good kid friendly restaurants?"
Answer:
"DO YOU HAVE A JOB? MAKE SURE YOU'RE NOT MOVING WITHOUT A JOB!"
The assumption that the vast majority of people are moving without employment is just silly. Aside from that the point that Vicki is making is that
-she has a client with a lot of questions
-she refers them here
-they are told to get a job, whether they ask about employment or not.
It's ANNOYING. We went through the same thing when we were moving here. It's like you have to pass through the magic employment question portal to get any answers here sometimes.
Simple solution to those who deeply offended or merely annoyed by unwanted advice on CD.
Here we go. Ready?
Post the following: Not a problem. Already got job. So how about those kid friendly restaurants and places of worship. Any of those in Cary?
Those who want to avoid the employment portal question altogether could start out with: Got a job in Cary and wondered if there are any churches, or kid friendly restaurants.
Vicki, as you are in real estate, I am assuming that the clients you are directing here are buying a home, which likely means they either have a job or don't need one. It would be perfect for them to mention right up top that they don't need a job, they need to know if there's Trader Joe's in town and they have no idea how Goggle works.
This is a thread about moving to the area before finding a job and how that didn't work out so well and people are posting about how annoying and offensive the get-a-job-first-advice is.
There are some types of positions like biotech / software engineering etc that seem to always have demand around here
My career has been in technology and I really like the idea of working in medical / research / etc.
The thing I find frustrating is that the IT related jobs in the Triangle area, on top of the normal requirements for that particular tech job (java, databases, IT project management, whatever) always seem to say something like "must have 5 years in the medical industry". Creates this chicken and egg scenario. So, even if a person has worked at NASA, the door shuts on all of these jobs just because the person hasn't worked in the medical industry? That on top of the one-dimensionality of having jobs in almost entirely in one industry is kind of worrisome.
I've seen people post on here who make it clear up front that they have a job lined up, but they still get a lecture from the welcome wagon.
How about people just answer the question that is asked? That would be a whole lot simpler and less condescending than making assumptions about a persons preparedness.
I'm currently in Northern Virginia, have lived all over the country, just had a baby, and was considering a relo to Raleigh (for high tech jobs, higher quality of life, friendlier people, more family friendly, be closer to family in Virginia, NC). This news is pretty disturbing. So, NOW where the hell are we going to go? Pittsburgh? Baltimore? Philly?! Yeesh..
Tech is still here, just that the RTP landscape changed. I'd still consider the area if you get interviews and an offer.
Part of it is general trends in the market everywhere. Between the fact that more and more manufacturing is becoming automated and that College educations have become devalued to the point that for the most entry level jobs that don't involve skills learned in a classroom companies are demanding a degree anyway. I'm not sure exactly what an electronics technician does or what the typical requirements are, but 15-20 years ago I used to see electronics techs working at various companies where I was doing work (Commerical construction) and those jobs have moved away or been replaced.
There's this weird shift in the market, both down and up that seems to really be affecting the lower-mid middle class. Lots of low end jobs and lots of jobs that are paying higher than mid level jobs ever used to like programming, biotech, etc. Even in constuction, the good mid level skilled craft positions are very diminished compared to when I entered the industry. A few high payed high skilled positions and lots of low level labor, both working harder than ever but way fewer mid level people because materials and processes have evolved so entry level people can do more than ever.
Yep, I believe some have referred to it as the hollowing out of the middle class. It may be a difficult future we are headed into.
My career has been in technology and I really like the idea of working in medical / research / etc.
The thing I find frustrating is that the IT related jobs in the Triangle area, on top of the normal requirements for that particular tech job (java, databases, IT project management, whatever) always seem to say something like "must have 5 years in the medical industry". Creates this chicken and egg scenario. So, even if a person has worked at NASA, the door shuts on all of these jobs just because the person hasn't worked in the medical industry? That on top of the one-dimensionality of having jobs in almost entirely in one industry is kind of worrisome.
In North VA you are currently in a VERY good part of the nation for jobs. You might gain some things, depending on what you're looking for, by moving here, but likewise you would also be giving some things up.
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Even with a job..
