Can Portland Use A Great NY Style Knishe? (living in, moving)

[aplwh]

Originally Posted by sickofnyc

nancy thereader,

Hi, I'm visiting Portland for the first time late August. I'm keeping ny fingers crossed that I get a good vibe. I have done catering besides being an aspiring collage artist. I have this great old world "knish" recipe that you cannot even get in Brooklyn anymore, believe me, I've done the research. I just feel that if you bring something like that to a place that has not had it, it might fly. Where in Brooklyn are you? I'm near the Sheepshead Bay area (YUK). Have you been to Portland yet? By the way, I certainly pronounce the "K" in knish. Thanks for the feedback.

Just curious, is it like the knishes from Knish Knosh in Queens?

[sickofnyc]

aplwh,
I haven't had those, but we had a place called Shatzkins in Brooklyn in Coney Island and they were super successful. They went out of business due to a family problem or soemthing. Everybody still talks about them. All kinds of fillings. So good. I have the recipe and I'd like to give it a try somewhere away from here. I'm hearing that Portlanders will not know what a knish is. Is that true? Maybe it's time they find out. Thanks for the feedback. Any suggestions?

[sickofnyc]

Wisteria,

Thanks for the info. Good advice. Maybe it is time for a good old world knish in the west. I'm very finicky about ingredients. In the first place, they would be made with organic ingredients. Besides the old standard potato/onion and kasha, I have a few good ideas for more gourmet fillings. I've done some catering so the food business is not new to me. Look, I really want to get out of NY and I make a mean knish..what the heck. You know what they say, a knish by any other name....
Thanks again and any feedback is appreciated.

[Wisteria]

Sickofnyc: Thanks for the info. Good advice. Maybe it is time for a good old world knish in the west. I'm very finicky about ingredients. In the first place, they would be made with organic ingredients. Besides the old standard potato/onion and kasha, I have a few good ideas for more gourmet fillings.

I'm from New York State, myself, and I started something called "The Eastcoast Connection" when I moved out west (I've been out west for almost 20 some odd years now). I advertised in local papers for other eastcoasters (although I also included Chicago, because that's got an eastcoast vibe and feel to it). There were lots of ex-New Yorkers who showed up and we had a blast! It was (obviously) another ex-New Yorker who brought the knishes and he did do a twist on them, too -- spinach, cheese, all kinds of flavors, meats -- pretty much like I said, a Jewish empenanda. I don't think he went real far with it, although he did get a catering job at a place I worked at for awhile. He was doing something else, too. Doing something like an Eastcoast connection to get your product sampled and talked about (and we eastcoast people do certainly talk more than westcoast people! ) would be a good way to start (plus you get to meet other eastcoasters who understand the culture back there).

People out west are much quieter, more politically correct, and they .... oh please don't bash me anyone from Oregon ... are not used to really "good" food like in NYC. So, a good product you made but called it something else (it's pretty Waspy out west), then I think you'd have a good chance.

I'd envision hooking up with a few coffee shops/cafes that you could bring your knishes to. I actually had some friends in Seattle who had a cookie business called "On-Your-Tie" cookies -- they were Italian New Yorkers, and they put their cookies in many places around town -- quite popular at the time, although I think they are no longer in business. Originally, they were going to make spaghetti sauce, but because the health department's requirements were so stringent, they went for something without meat (something to keep in mind).

Also, spicy food isn't real big out here, except for Mexican and some Thai places. (I've had friends from out west who thought that the Thai restaurant we went to at one point was "too spicy," but I and another friend from New York were going "ooooh, this is so bland....")

But with the Hispanic influence so big out here, I'd go with the "empanadas." I understand wanting to keep it your traditional named recipe, but most of the people out here have no clue what NYC is like, especially if they have never been there. They also don't understand Jewish culture. Therefore, I'd just call them something that's a combination thing -- like "Knosh Empenadas," or something -- kind of a clue to those who are from the east, but appealing to those who know nothing about it. The organic ingredients are a biggy out west. I know a woman who has a candy company which she just moved to Seattle (she's from Toronto, originally) and she always advertises "organic" ingredients because of being in the west.

The food business is a tough business, but if you have a tasty product, label it for the area you're in, and find some outlets to put them into, then go for it! I'm just pointing out the things I've noticed over the years, and most people have no clue what New York food is like. In fact, I'm from Buffalo, but I never buy "Buffalo" chicken wings out here because they are NOT "real" Buffalo chicken wings. I just make my own at home now with Frank's hot sauce.

Connect up with as many people as you can up there, and see what's popular in Portland right now.

Good luck to you -- wish you were out here and I could indulge in your knishes!!

[oldtintype]

I think you're wrong in saying people from the West Coast don't know good food...Maybe Portland is new to the international food world on a grand scale but those of us from San Francisco know not only what a knish is but good food too! We can hold our own against New York any day.

[oldtintype]

I have no idea why you think calling something an empanada is going to make it any more popular--that's absurd! If I saw a white person making "flavored" empanadas I'd run fast the other way expecting junk. Call it a knish and go from there. I think you're making some major assumptions that people don't know what one is and about the sophistication levels of all west coast people as a whole! I used to buy them in SF and there are plenty of people from all over the country and world in Portland who know what they are. I think you'd end up looking like an idiot in the end for calling it something other than what it is. I'd be sitting there thinking, why aren't they just calling it a knish?

[nancy thereader]

hi sony (sick of ny). Yes, I mistyped that. I meant to say that they pronounced knish as "knee" or something. I live on LI, but I teach in Park Slope. I agree w/ everything you said about Brooklyn and it is true of LI in general. I love misty weather so I'm even looking forward to that.
I've been reading a Portland writer (Phillip Margolin) just to get an immediacy of the city. And, I'm enjoying his books; they're great mysteries.
I know I'd buy knishes if they had them. All we have here are those Gablina ( ???) things.

[Wisteria]

OldtinType: I have no idea why you think calling something an empanada is going to make it any more popular--that's absurd! If I saw a white person making "flavored" empanadas I'd run fast the other way expecting junk. Call it a knish and go from there.

Okay, okay. I lived in San Francisco, too, and I now live in Santa Cruz, and I lived in Seattle, Phoenix and Denver. I still found it really different than New York City. I was only trying to help.

Who am I to say? Hey, if most people know about a knish, then great. Now, I wasn't referring to San Francisco -- I have lots of friends from New York who moved to the Bay Area. I was really thinking about Oregon.....

And an empenada -- it wasn't a hard and fast rule thing -- just trying to think of a different word quickly -- sorry, maybe that wasn't the best description.

Sickofnyc will just have to try it out and see. I was only giving feedback based on my own experiences. That's all.

NYC is just really different from the west, and that's my main point. I've adapted over the years, but it was really tough for me in the beginning -- real culture shock.

Okay, maybe it was a silly idea -- I apologize. Just trying to toss options out there. Maybe Portland is more progressive than I thought (and yes, I've been to Portland, too, and Eugene, and Ashland, and you get my point).

You're lucky you're in San Francisco -- it is a great city. I love going down to Japan Town with my daughter who is an anime freak! Anime cafes!

Well, I'll just quietly nudge out.......sorrrryyyy.......

[oldtintype]

I'm no longer in SF--I've lived in Portland since 1999. My point is that assuming people are clueless and trying to create a market for something by naming the product something it isn't doesn't really help spread the word. And most likely people who are unaware of what a knish is or aren't willing to try it, probably don't know what an empanada is and wouldn't be willing to try that either. And of course the people who DO know what a knish or empanada is would be leery of trying it because it wouldn't be clear to them what it was.

I don't know when you were in Portland last, but Portland has changed drastically over the last 8 years I've been here, particularly the last three or four, and I think a lot of assumptions people make or have made about Portland in the past aren't really accurate anymore. I mean they are in certain parts of the city or certain areas, but as a whole, the level of sophistication and diversity of people (IN Portland proper, not the suburbs) at this point kind of make a lot of the stereotypes inaccurate. They still exist, but there's also an entirely different level of sophistication in various sections of the city at this point. I think Portland is ready for pretty much anything at this point and has been for a while. Portland is still small (which is why it's so nice in the first place), so the market may be a lot smaller but it's there.

Another suggestion that hasn't been made is a food booth at one of the MANY farmer's markets or a booth at Saturday market. Both draw people from all over, people INTO food (in terms of the farmer's market) and a lot of tourists. The PSU farmer's market is always packed and has a lot of food booths that do extremely well, and I'm sure there would be a market there. The food booths always have huge lines (likewise at Saturday market).

BTW, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was calling you an idiot, I just meant that in the end, I think it would backfire to try to rename something based on the idea that people are unaware of things.

[Wisteria]

Well, I'll keep on sneaking out, but just a suggestion -- maybe when sickofny gets there, perhaps you guys could PM each other and get info, and help out. One of the best ways to success is through other people. Who knows, you might all be on the edge of the next big thing there! That would be so cool!

I'll just stay away -- you guys in Oregon know the market (obviously) better than I do. That eastcoast part of me that just won't go away seems to want to jump into conversations! Sorry, folks.