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Because 0bama says the US Constitution and Bill of Rights are fundamentally flawed, because the Bill of Rights is a list of "negative rights" and the Constitution does not outline what government can do to you, only what it cannot do.
That was a whole lotta nothing you just posted so let me ask you:
Do you think it is your man-made right to free speech or a God given right?
Do you think it is your man-made right to assembly or a God given right?
Do you think it is your man-made right protect your family or a God given right?
Do you think it is your man-made right to freedom or a God given right?
Do you think slavery is a man-made right or a God given right?
Do you think the suffrage of women is a man-made right or a God given right?
Do you think freedom from the tyranny of religion is a man-made right or a God given right?
Considering that neither Jefferson or Franklin were anything close to being religious freaks (unless you find deism freakish), I don't have the foggiest idea as what you are trying to get at.
0bama: "I -- I don't think the two viewes are contradictory, to say that it was a remarkable political document that paved the way for where we are now and to say that, uh, it also, uh, reflected the fundamental flaw of this country that continues to this day."
For people who don't understand, a fundamental flaw means that the very structure and foundation of the Constitution is flawed, not just a blind spot or one section of it.
So when 0bama states over and over that he wants to "fundamentally change the United States" he means to change the very fabric and fondation of the country, you know, like from a capitalist republic to a socialist republic.
0bama: "I -- I don't think the two viewes are contradictory, to say that it was a remarkable political document that paved the way for where we are now and to say that, uh, it also, uh, reflected the fundamental flaw of this country that continues to this day."
For people who don't understand, a fundamental flaw means that the very structure and foundation of the Constitution is flawed, not just a blind spot or one section of it.
So when 0bama states over and over that he wants to "fundamentally change the United States" he means to change the very fabric and fondation of the country, you know, like from a capitalist republic to a socialist republic.
We can't let that happen.
Our rights to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness are inherent and preexisted the Constitution. The Constitution established a government to protect our rights. No President, government, king or majority vote can take away our rights. They might violate our rights at times but they can't take them away.
My friend I have read both documents as well as their other writings with great extent and vigor. And both documents are more than just a fundamental truth, they are the framework for a Republic that stands for more than mindlessness and idiotic rantings from those too obtuse enough to realize that those "truths" they put in there were "truths" that they created. Truths that they were the first to put forth and to apply to a document which is the foundation of the great Republic that shines like a beacon to others. Truths which ARE THE ONLY founding documents of any recent government (200+ years) that GRANT their citizens these "truths".
My first suggestion to you would be that you give basketball a rest, as well that hand you you're using to pat yourself on the back. Then I'd suggest that you familiarize yourself with history, starting with the Magna Carta .. developed almost 600 years before the US Constitution ... which scholars and historians consider to be both the foundation for common law as well as constitutional government, including a substantial influence on the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution. There are other examples even before the Magna Carta, but this has a significant connection, and will suffice.
So no, this was not the first case of men declaring their rights to be inalienable, and subject to no other man's generosities, including Kings!
Of course, from the 13th -18th centuries, many of those elements of the Magna Carta were repealed, ignored, violated and declared null by criminals similar to the actions being taken today by the criminals who are using our constitution as a doormat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130
Your perspective is skewed by the basis of your citizenship, our "rights" are inalienable (too a point-see Patriot Act for verification on that) and while resolute can and have been taken away for the overall good of the country for the past 234 years (give or take depending on your perspective) for various reasons. The founding principle of those documents is not our freedom, but our independence from England. The "truths" and "rights" you're so flippant yet ignorant about were just gravy on top for the founders of the Republic to hang their case on.
Indeed, reading and comprehension are at an all time low, and your response is a great testament to it. But then again, sheep follow other sheep, so I'm not all that surprised or worried about it. Because there stand true patriots who both know and understand the intricacies and foundations the founding fathers meant and intended for our Republic and they will stand the wall of freedom, so that you...and I...can enjoy this banter on your expense.
The above incoherent and verbose meanderings are reminiscent of your first post. Difficult to read, and detrimental to an ordered mind.
And aside from the decline in reading skills, basic critical reasoning and common sense that was once commonplace, even among the illiterate and uneducated masses, seems to be the most dangerous deficiency existing today, as demonstrated all too well by your posts.
That criminals would violate the constitution (see the Patriot Act) has no bearing whatsoever on the purpose, intent or meaning of the constitution. And to be confused about a concept as simple as that should be cause for concern.
That there are laws against bank robbery doesn't prevent criminals from robbing banks anymore than the constitution prevents criminals from trampling upon God given rights. It just means we don't have to lay down and accept such violations.
Thomas Jefferson, the principle author of the Declaration of Independence was in France during the drafting of the Constitution, as was John Adams, who later helped to polish Jefferson's draft along with Benjamin Franklin. Of the three, only Franklin attended the Constitutional Convention where he played only a minor role in its crafting.
Please don't go on "I'm Smarter Than A Fifth Grader".
Perhaps you and the other guy ought to have a contest to see who can pat themselves on the back the most ... while making complete fools of yourselves.
And thanks for the GPS update as to the whereabouts of Thomas Jefferson when the constitution was written ...but you obviously misread my statement to mean I thought the same men wrote both documents:
The declaration of independence and constitution (if you are capable of reading, you should try it sometime), and the men who penned them both ......
Had that been my intent ... I would have said "and the same men who penned them both".
So your entire post is a demonstration of ignorance.
The Constitution is a social contract between three parties: The people, the government, and the people collectibly. Our Government exists as a mutual cooperation between the STATES and the PEOPLE of the STATES, not God...so the fact you guys keep putting Him in your arguments is verbose. God has NOTHING to do with the foundation of America.
Now...I suggest all of you who claim to know an ounce about the Constitution go read John Locke--who penned the phrase social contract. The Constitution wasn't the first document to outline American law---we had the Articles of Confederation first. When that proved inept, almost none of the men present in 1776 were at the Constit. Convention in 1787, when they proceeed to basically just copy the Massachusetts Constitution written 7 years prior by John Adams.
The Bill of Rights weren't even apart of the original document. Again, when Massachusett went to ratify the document, it was lacking those 10 statements. It wouldn't be until Massachusetts was reassured certain rights would be gauranteed that it would ratify the document.
The Declaration of Independence, though, an extraordinary and beautiful document, has NO legal standing. Those rights, Life, Liberty and Happiness are endowed (supplied) by God the Creator, but this is key, PROTECTED BY GOVERNMENT--you guys need to read the following sentence, it's important to understanding the point of government. "That to secrue these Rights, governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the Consent of the Governed..."
Our Government's prime responsibilty is to protect and promote life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, ie all the conditions of humanity, ALL HUMANITY, not just some. However, there is not single human who can define what those three qualities are--as they are different for each of us.
Do you think slavery is a man-made right or a God given right?
Actually, there are many passages in the Bible which commands the proper treatment of slaves, and not one that prohibits or condemns the practice. So one would be forced to conclude that it is at least a God "condoned" practice at the very least. (not that I agree with slavery ... just making sure the record is straight)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn
Do you think the suffrage of women is a man-made right or a God given right?
I wouldn't ask Allah that question ... because western women have never really experienced "suffrage", the likes of which are and have been common worldwide under other religions alleged to be directed by God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn
Do you think freedom from the tyranny of religion is a man-made right or a God given right?
This one is easy ... that one is man made ... both the tyranny and the freedom from tyranny.
Actually, there are many passages in the Bible which commands the proper treatment of slaves, and not one that prohibits or condemns the practice. So one would be forced to conclude that it is at least a God "condoned" practice at the very least. (not that I agree with slavery ... just making sure the record is straight)
I wouldn't ask Allah that question ... because western women have never really experienced "suffrage", the likes of which are and have been common worldwide under other religions alleged to be directed by God.
This one is easy ... that one is man made ... both the tyranny and the freedom from tyranny.
Not a student of history apparently.
Women in western civilization literally had no rights, like literally none until the 1920s. In Ancient Athens they weren't even counted as citizens--slaves were. In the Middle Ages, do you the Catholic Church cared about the wellbeing and girls--not a chance. They were used for bearing children, that's it. The female's family had to pay a dowery to have her married off, she was essentially property.
Women in many Islamic cultures are given great responsibilties. Saudi Arabia is not too true to Islam, nor is the Taliban. I have travelled extensively in Egypt, women are treated very fairly.
Now, every culture had slavery. It was accepted in the world 'til about 150 years ago...although it stills exists in some parts today. That same God also said to not eat pork...so, it's questionable.
Tyranny is certainly man-made and it always extends from the same thing, "I'm right and you're wrong."
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