Jimmy Carter ask jews for forgiveness (Barack Obama, March, election, elect)
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First of all, if you read the text of his letter directly rather than through the lens of media distortion, you will see that he did not ask for forgiveness. What he did ask for is forgiveness if his past comments stigmitised all of Israel. In no way shape or form did his letter retract the stinging criticism levied against Israeli tactics in Palestine and amongst pro-Israeli lobbyists.
I see no relation to his grandson's campaign but rather as a message of hope during the Christmas/Hanukkah season.
Of course the ADL responses throughout have been way out of line and filled with a faux victimology amidst the obvious practice of state-directed terrorism and anti-democratic religious fundamentalism we have become used to with Israel. Foxman and friends, however, remain keen to turn Carter's blunt honesty into anti-Semitism at every opportunity.
I admittedly made an error while typing, and neglected to proof-read. I didn't mean to imply that Carter is likened to being a terrorist, but that Hamas and other Free Palestine organizations are. And you just did.
I'm fine with that intimation as long as you also intimate that Israel is also a terrorist organization. And if you can't say that, then you also can't say that Hamas, et al is a terrorist organization.
It's that simple. Afterall, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
What separates the two?
You, as well as those you support, need to look in the mirror.
Your penchant for "Free Palestine organizations" clearly shows where you're coming from. I assume, and believe, that you know what they mean by "free Palestine". Hamas and their allies, Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, define Palestine as the land "from the river to the sea". That is, the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. "Free Palestine" means nothing less than the destruction of the State of Israel. And Hamas and the other terror groups will tell that to anyone who asks. And this is not a past position. It is their position TODAY.
Views in support of "free Palestine" groups, such as yours and other Hamas lovers, have fueled this seemingly never ending war for generations. And will continue to do so for future generations. Your view does a tremendous disservice to the relatively moderate Palestinian Arabs who oppose Hamas.
From the Hamas Charter as it still is TODAY:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
The charter is a rather classical Islamist document, applied to the local issues. It declares that Jihad (in the sense of armed battle) is the only solution. It cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a ludicrous anti-Semitic forgery. The "Zionists" and the freemasons and others are blamed for what Hamas and radical Islamists see as the major calamities of the world, especially the French Revolution.
One of the most ominous aspects of the Charter however, is this Hadith:
Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).
Your penchant for "Free Palestine organizations" clearly shows where you're coming from. I assume, and believe, that you know what they mean by "free Palestine". Hamas and their allies, Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, define Palestine as the land "from the river to the sea". That is, the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. "Free Palestine" means nothing less than the destruction of the State of Israel. And Hamas and the other terror groups will tell that to anyone who asks. And this is not a past position. It is their position TODAY.
Views in support of "free Palestine" groups, such as yours and other Hamas lovers, have fueled this seemingly never ending war for generations. And will continue to do so for future generations. Your view does a tremendous disservice to the relatively moderate Palestinian Arabs who oppose Hamas.
From the Hamas Charter as it still is TODAY:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
The charter is a rather classical Islamist document, applied to the local issues. It declares that Jihad (in the sense of armed battle) is the only solution. It cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a ludicrous anti-Semitic forgery. The "Zionists" and the freemasons and others are blamed for what Hamas and radical Islamists see as the major calamities of the world, especially the French Revolution.
One of the most ominous aspects of the Charter however, is this Hadith:
Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).
Actually, there are two schools of thought on 'Free Palestine.' I'm glad you brought this up because while I denounce Zionists for wanting to accept nothing less than it being ALL THEIRS, I, too, denounce Arabs that wish for the land to be ALL THEIRS.
There are Free Palestine groups and advocates, such as myself, and other non-religious, rational potical minds like Norman Finkelstein that argue for both a Free Palestine and a free Israel. So far, only one of those have come to fruition.
In that instance, I'd ask for you to open your mind a bit more.
Adding this late. Here is Finkelstein v. Blitzer - a classic. It's not a clip-show thesis, but it is a great depiction of both sides. Blitzer for Israel, Finkelstein for Palestine (and Israel). I think many people need to understand this.
The situation in Israel & the whole subject of Jews & their persecution throughout the centuries
are so special ,that every anti Israeli or anti-Jewish comment is essentially wrong & antisemitic...
To say it plainly,it is like trying to find faults,negatives,wrongs in a Lexus luxury car...
There are not any,unless you are anti-Lexus &/or anti-Japanese ...
Then u can portray a Lexus as..."the root of all evil "...
Since every antisem argument must be contradicted,
the babies are used by the terrorists as human shields,
in accordance to their religious faith about " martyrdom "...
Well this Jew thinks he does. He can shove a light saber up his pucker for all I care about anything that anti-Semite has to say.
Jill you and I agree on most things, but not this. I have met him and I have talked to him and he is no anti-semite. I also know Jewish people who know him and don't believe he is anti-semite. Just because he does not believe in the manifest destiny of Israel owning all of the land currently occupied by palestinians does not make him an anti-semite.
If you were really Jewish, then you would know that an Al Het will not get you forgiveness from God unless you FIRST GO TO THE PERSON whom you've offended, ask for forgiveness, AND have that person grant you forgiveness. It is very clear in our religion that if you have sinned against another person, you may not bypass them and go straight to God for forgiveness -- God will NOT forgive. Only after making an intense, sincere effort to gain the offended person's forgiveness for THREE times on three separate occasions, may you hope that God will forgive you instead. And if that person is dead because you murdered him, you are hosed, because a dead person can't grant you forgiveness. Such is the case with the Holocaust criminals, and why they can never be forgiven by their victims who are dead and can never receive God's forgiveness either.
Seen in this light, this was Carter's pretense at asking for forgiveness from the Jews (though I don't believe for a moment that he is sincere and thankfully, God sees that too since He sees everything.)
I am not Jewish. I have to rely on my friends who are Jewish for my understanding of Judaism. Trust me. There is a lot I don't understand.
Actually, there are two schools of thought on 'Free Palestine.' I'm glad you brought this up because while I denounce Zionists for wanting to accept nothing less than it being ALL THEIRS, I, too, denounce Arabs that wish for the land to be ALL THEIRS.
There are Free Palestine groups and advocates, such as myself, and other non-religious, rational potical minds like Norman Finkelstein that argue for both a Free Palestine and a free Israel. So far, only one of those have come to fruition.
In that instance, I'd ask for you to open your mind a bit more.
You don't use these words but you seem to be advocating what is commonly known as the "two state solution". If you are, then using the phrase "free Palestine" is very confusing because that phrase is used by Palestinian terror groups to mean Israel's destruction, as I explained in a previous post.
OK, the two state solution is very feasible and I agree with you on that if I understand you correctly. However you err in claiming that the "Zionists" reject it. Which Zionists?
Let me ask YOU to open YOUR mind a bit more. I'm afraid that you're ignorant of recent history in this regard. The Palestinian Authority has rejected generous offers which would have given them a contiguous state in the west bank and Gaza with a capital in E. Jerusalem. Arafat turned it down in 2000-2001 and Israel offered it again as recently as Sept., 2008. Again it was rejected. Please read on:
"Arafat turned it all down" Dennis Ross was intimately involved in the Camp David negotiations.
Ross confirms that Barak offered Arafat all of Gaza, a net of 97 percent of the West Bank, 2 percent of pre-1967 Israel, and a capital in east Jerusalem. Ross says "those who say there were cantons, this is completely untrue. [The territory offered in the West Bank] was contiguous."
Ross says Arafat was offered a "Right of Return" for refugees to the nascent Palestinian state and $30 Billion fund to compensate refugees, and Arafat turned it all down, against the pleadings of his own Palestinian advisors.
DENNIS ROSS: WHAT REALLY HAPPENED AT CAMP DAVID AND BEYOND
A summary by Dennis Ross of what was offered and what took place at the Camp David and Taba negotiations:
1. Yasser Arafat presented no ideas at Camp David.
2. The Taba talks would have happened in late September if not for the outbreak of violence. Arafat knew the US was ready to make a proposal and thus promised to control the violence, but didn't. (I think he was hoping that he could leverage the violence into political gain.)
3. All of Gaza and a net of 97% of the West Bank were offered at Taba.
4. The West Bank area offered was contiguous, not "cantons".
5. The Jordan valley would be under Israeli patrol for only 6 years.
6. The Palestinians were offered a capital in eastern Jerusalem.
7. There would be a "Right of Return" to the nascent Palestinian state.
8. A $30 Billion fund to compensate refugees would be set up.
9. Taba was rushed due to Clinton's, not Barak's, end of term.
10. Members of the PA delegation thought Taba was the best they could hope to get and encouraged Arafat to accept it.
11. Arafat accepted everything he was given at Taba, but rejected everything he was supposed to give.
12. Arafat scuttled the Camp David offer. Arafat scuttled the Taba offer. Arafat scuttled the Mitchell plan. Arafat scuttled the Tenet plan. Arafat scuttled the Zinni plan. Mideast Dispatch Archive: Dennis Ross on the “Camp David myths” of the anti-Israel crowd
The situation in Israel & the whole subject of Jews & their persecution throughout the centuries
are so special ,that every anti Israeli or anti-Jewish comment is essentially wrong & antisemitic...
To say it plainly,it is like trying to find faults,negatives,wrongs in a Lexus luxury car...
There are not any,unless you are anti-Lexus &/or anti-Japanese ...
Then u can portray a Lexus as..."the root of all evil "...
Wow... I would respond but in doing so, no matter how I worded it would get me labeled. Seems we found a perfect nation of perfect people beyond criticism by all but God himself. How nice that must be.
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"Free Palestine"????
