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Well the gay and married priests are on the extreme end, I'd say. *L*
But all I'm saying is that the relationship between Catholic parishioners and the Catholic Church is often much more nuisanced than non-Catholics can understand. (Annulments, for example. *L*)
What I am saying is that the Vatican does not have control of Catholic leaders who defy Catholic Church doctrine. It is most unusual for the Pope not to issue a statement about the death of a prominent "Catholic" politican like Ted Kennedy.
No, what I'm arguing that Kennedy's approach allows others to exercise their free will, which I don't see as compromising his own Catholicism.
(And I disagree with pommymommy. I think adds something to posts. *L*)
I do believe we're sort of arguing the same point. I agree that his style allowed others to excercise their free will, but it is unfortunate that he had to compromise the teachings of his faith to do so. The question (whose answer we will never know) is will God judge him as someone who has done good (his public service for the betterment of the people) or a sinner (Mary Jo Kopechne and countless unborn babies aborted.)
And yes and even a add something to the posts!
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And I'm not saying it never could happen or hasn't happened, but my point is what I said in post 38 about having things both ways.
UGH! I meant to copy post 38 so I could reread it. It's getting late and I am getting tired. I can't recall it exactly
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Yes, but it would be particularly egregious, with the publicness of this funeral, to allow a Cardinal to participate in it if what some people are arguing on this thread about Kennedy were in fact true. The hypocrisy of the Church would be all too evident.
On a smaller scale -- there are plenty of fallen Catholics who are given a funeral mass, of course they aren't politically powerful and known around the world like Sen Kennedy.
I am trying to step away from the money aspect....the Diocese of Boston has to do something not only for the Kennedy clan but for the WIC parishioners. There would be some outrage if there wasn't a Cardinal present to see Kennedy off.
Back to money -- unless published and exposed, no one would know what donations were made by the Kennedy's to the Boston Archdiocese. Church donations are down for a number of reasons and the economy is making matters that much worse.
We Catholics see the hypocrisy within our Church, believe me. It is why so many of us have moved away from it and why the Church is supportive of amnesty for undocumented aliens from Latin America. Without them, the RCC will grow smaller especially after the horrific sex scandals.
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I bid everyone a good night...it's late here.
Sorry, but Catholics are not infallible. If he repented and took the Sacrament of Reconciliation for his sins, he would most definitely be within the teachings of the Church.
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
And you know this how exactly? His personal life may very well have been in line with the teachings of the Church. Or are you suggesting that he should have been a shill for the Vatican in his position as a U.S. Senator and imposed the teachings of the Catholic Church on all U.S. citizens?
His personal life? In line with teachings of the Church? He was a drunk, he killed a young woman, he cheated on his poor wife, he was with that nephew during that rape.
What I am saying is that the Vatican does not have control of Catholic leaders who defy Catholic Church doctrine.
The Vatican could if it wanted to. I read that the fact that it chooses not to, as the interesting facet of this.
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Originally Posted by pommysmommy
It is most unusual for the Pope not to issue a statement about the death of a prominent "Catholic" politican like Ted Kennedy.
Possibly, but it's the Last Rites and Catholic burial that matter.
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
We Catholics see the hypocrisy within our Church, believe me. It is why so many of us have moved away from it and why the Church is supportive of amnesty for undocumented aliens from Latin America. Without them, the RCC will grow smaller especially after the horrific sex scandals.
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Galatians 6:7
Boy, the Christians who love to judge others at their time of death and paint God as unforgiving. I'll never get it. It's like Jesus doesn't even exist for some Christians, which is quite strange.
"For He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." Colossians 1:13-14
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Originally Posted by momonkey
a Bush brat?
Well, I certainly haven't said anything nasty about Laura Bush's accident, so I guess that speaks for itself. Not my place to judge, and I wasn't there.
And I have never defended Kennedy's not reporting the accident right away. That's something he had to live with, and it's between him and God.
Last edited by helenejen; 08-29-2009 at 12:28 AM..
If Kennedy received last rites and burial from a Catholic church leader not recognized by the Vatican, the Vatican will not consider it a Catholic ceremony. In the end, God will sort it out.
If Kennedy received last rites and burial from a Catholic church leader not recognized by the Vatican, the Vatican will not consider it a Catholic ceremony. In the end, God will sort it out.
Are you suggesting that Cardinal O'Malley isn't currently recognized by the Vatican as a cardinal in the Catholic Church?
One of the best speeches JFK gave was on the seperation of Church and State. Learn history and keep religion out of politics.
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add something to the posts!
