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And if that's the case, then why would anyone hold up the Catholic Church as the absolute arbiter of morality? People can't have it both ways--condemn Kennedy for supposedly not following the moral teachings of the Church and also argue that a cardinal at Kennedy's funeral is merely the result of a monetary exchange in which the Church sacrifices its principles for the dollar.
I don't know of anyone who thinks that, even Catholics. No one I know considers the Catholic church the absolute arbiter of morality. Having said that, there is Catholic doctrine that is not negotiable and Catholics who fail to follow Catholic Church doctrine are not even supposed to take Communion. Church leaders who offer Communion to abortion supporters like Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy are out of favor with the Vatican.
And if that's the case, then why would anyone hold up the Catholic Church as the absolute arbiter of morality? People can't have it both ways--condemn Kennedy for supposedly not following the moral teachings of the Church and also argue that a cardinal at Kennedy's funeral is merely the result of a monetary exchange in which the Church sacrifices its principles for the dollar.
Who is holding the RCC up as the "absolute arbiter of morality"?
No one is condeming Kennedy -- that's God's decision. People are pointing out that it is hypocritical to be a devout Catholic and a politician at the same time. (That holds true for all pols -- not only Kennedy.)
Once again, the Church is not compromising it's principles if one clergyman is accepting money in exchange for favors for a wealthy parishioner.
The Pope knows that Kennedy was a coward and a scumbag. He let a woman drown in his car after he drunkenly ran of a bridge, and he didn't bother calling for help 'till the next day!
What followed was my acknowledging that he didn't allow the church to flavor his politics, aka the free will you touted previously.
No, what I'm arguing that Kennedy's approach allows others to exercise their free will, which I don't see as compromising his own Catholicism.
(And I disagree with pommymommy. I think adds something to posts. *L*)
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
Given the fact that the Cardinal of the Archdiocese of Boston is giving the Prayer of Commendation, it says something. Despite the fact that Kennedy was pro choice, he might have sought Reconcilliation for his transgressions public and private.
Agreed.
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
But to address your question: Are you a wealthy Catholic? If so, you know the truth. Favor can be curried within the church by significant donations.
And I'm not saying it never could happen or hasn't happened, but my point is what I said in post 38 about having things both ways.
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
The Church is comprised of men, men are fallible. Because one man within the church fails to uphold the teachings of the Church, does not mean that the whole Church is corrupt. Sort of like politicians. One corrupt elected official doesn't mean they are all corrupt, does it?
Yes, but it would be particularly egregious, with the publicness of this funeral, to allow a Cardinal to participate in it if what some people are arguing on this thread about Kennedy were in fact true. The hypocrisy of the Church would be all too evident.
The Pope knows that Kennedy was a coward and a scumbag. He let a woman drown in his car after he drunkenly ran of a bridge, and he didn't bother calling for help 'till the next day!
I don't know of anyone who thinks that, even Catholics. No one I know considers the Catholic church the absolute arbiter of morality.
Non-Catholics like to act as if that is true when it suits their purposes, as in a discussion of Kennedy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pommysmommy
Having said that, there is Catholic doctrine that is not negotiable and Catholics who fail to follow Catholic Church doctrine are not even supposed to take Communion. Church leaders who offer Communion to abortion supporters like Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy are out of favor with the Vatican.
And yet that almost never happens. That's the point. And if Kennedy is out of favor with the Vatican, then there should not be a Cardinal at the service. And that's something that the Pope could control most readily if he were to so choose.
Non-Catholics like to act as if that is true when it suits their purposes, as in a discussion of Kennedy.
And yet that almost never happens. That's the point. And if Kennedy is out of favor with the Vatican, then there should not be a Cardinal at the service. And that's something that the Pope could control most readily if he were to so choose.
The Cardinal is also out of favor with the Vatican. There are many "rogue" Catholic leaders including gay and married priests who clearly defy Catholic Doctrine.
The Cardinal is also out of favor with the Vatican. There are many "rogue" Catholic leaders including gay and married priests who clearly defy Catholic Doctrine.
Well the gay and married priests are on the extreme end, I'd say. *L*
But all I'm saying is that the relationship between Catholic parishioners and the Catholic Church is often much more nuisanced than non-Catholics can understand. (Annulments, for example. *L*)
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
No one is condeming Kennedy --
That I definitely disagree with. In fact, many non-Catholics, especially, are trying to use the Church to condemn Kennedy, which I can't abide.
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Originally Posted by OhBeeHave
that's God's decision.
Absolutely.
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