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NATO already has borders with Russia, and they are completely quiet. Have been, still are.
Just recently we had two Russian men cross the short distance from the Russian coast to St. Lawrence Island, and asked for asylum. No one saw them leaving the one place, or arriving at the other. They just showed up!
Norway has a direct land connection to Russia. Quiet.
No one wants war but Putin. He is using NATO as an excuse, not a reason to attack Ukraine.
Not every NATO country is equal. Some are more of a threat than others.
Ukraine, one of the largest countries in Europe, with large black sea coastline and Crimea [where Russian naval ships were docking and using well into the time Ukraine was an independent country] poses the largest threat to Russia of them all.
Also take note, Russia invaded Georgia which also has Black sea coastline. This is a strategically important sea for Russia, and also why Turkey was quickly roped into NATO after WW2.
As for Baltic countries, Montenegro and some ex-Yugo countries, Poland etc - Russia has complained but doesn't seem to be willing to use force to resolve any of them.
I guess this is a pick your battles kind of thing.
lemme tell ya sumpin bout dem Ruzzian soldiers..it takes a bunch of crack troops to open fire on each other at the shooting range, killing 11 and wounding another dozen or two...now that's what I call a live fire exercise...go Russia!!!!!...
Not every NATO country is equal. Some are more of a threat than others.
Ukraine, one of the largest countries in Europe, with large black sea coastline and Crimea [where Russian naval ships were docking and using well into the time Ukraine was an independent country] poses the largest threat to Russia of them all.
Also take note, Russia invaded Georgia which also has Black sea coastline. This is a strategically important sea for Russia, and also why Turkey was quickly roped into NATO after WW2.
As for Baltic countries, Montenegro and some ex-Yugo countries, Poland etc - Russia has complained but doesn't seem to be willing to use force to resolve any of them.
I guess this is a pick your battles kind of thing.
You keep using NATO as a threat, as an excuse for Russia to attack and invade countries which are NOT part of NATO. Then you claim you don't understand why neutral nations would want to join NATO!
imagine this..you just left your wife and kids to make a run to the post office..as soon as you get out of your car, two or more jack boots grab your ass and throw you in a van, whereby you are then whisked away to a 'training camp' for a few days and then put out on the front line of a raging war..yeah, that's where I wanna live..some of you mother Russia lovers need to put your ass where your mouth is and go on over and fight for the big Red machine..
It certainly was! Putin had no idea the Ukrainians, including most of the Russian speaking Ukrainians ... would fight like hell against his regime change attempt.
He deceived himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
It simply wasn't politically possible to mobilize two million Russian men for an invasion of their brother Slavic country, for many reasons, both domestic and international.
...
Then why the hell would he want to do it? He clearly knew this would not be popular, but he intended to FORCE those people into a war he KNEW they did not want.
So he lied to the people who put their trust in him. He manipulated those people, and caused the deaths of thousands of his own loyal people.
You keep using NATO as a threat, as an excuse for Russia to attack and invade countries which are NOT part of NATO. Then you claim you don't understand why neutral nations would want to join NATO!
2008
Quote:
Bush backs Ukraine and Georgia for Nato membership
Yeah, Russia was wrong in 2008, and then in 2014 and now 2022. I get it.
The ironic thing is that for this Russian complaining about their potential victims escaping to join NATO, all the Russians have to do is use diplomacy. Get one single NATO member to say NO to Georgia, Ukraine, the rest of the World, etc. joining NATO.
But when you go around threatening neutral nations by testing their air and sea defenses, turning off the gas in the middle of winter, threatening to bomb their cities with nuclear weapons - you know, things like that - you sort of drive neutral nations to seek allies and increase defense spending.
Russia is grabbing men off the street to fight in Ukraine
Quote:
Police and military officers swooped down on a Moscow business center this week unannounced. They were looking for men to fight in Ukraine — and they seized nearly every one they saw. Some musicians, rehearsing. A courier there to deliver a parcel. A man from a Moscow service agency, very drunk, in his mid-50s, with a walking disability.
“I have no idea why they took him,” said Alexei, who, like dozens of others in the office complex, was rounded up and taken to the nearest military enlistment office, part of a harsh new phase in the Russian drive.
In cities and towns across Russia, men of fighting age are going into hiding to avoid the officials who are seizing them and sending them to fight in Ukraine.
Police and military press-gangs in recent days have snatched men off the streets and outside Metro stations. They’ve lurked in apartment building lobbies to hand out military summonses. They’ve raided office blocks and hostels. They’ve invaded cafes and restaurants, blocking the exits.
At a predawn sweep on the MIPSTROY1 construction company dormitories on Thursday, they took more than 200 men. On Sunday, they rounded up dozens at a Moscow shelter for the homeless...
Russia has a million man army? Everything is working as planned? The attack on Kyiv was just Putin’s 5d-chess move? We just have to wait for Putin to show us the real capabilities of his army?
Again it doesn't matter how much territory they are taking. As long as they are continuing to take any more land, there is no hope for the Ukrainians to ever get the Russians out of their country.
I have to agree with the other poster, this is really nonsensical.
If Ukraine is taking thousands of kilometers per month across various fronts, and Russia is taking a dozen kilometers per month, it matters. It matters militarily, logistically, politically, it takes a suspension of disbelief to claim net territory gains don't matter in a war for control of territory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz
So you believe the Russians can continue to take more land and still lose?
Absolutely. What you're studiously ignoring is that the people you're arguing with don't believe that particular snail's pace Russian offensive will be able to continue forever, or be strategically relevant even if successful.
I could just imagine you in December 1944 screaming about how the Ardennes Offensive proved things weren't going well for the allies and they would never retake land from Germany since Germany was moving forward gaining territory.
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