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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.88%
No 254 50.40%
Unsure 49 9.72%
Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-16-2022, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
4,648 posts, read 3,845,343 times
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Imagine you are trying to be the next superpower/regional empire and you have to ask one of the most heavily sanctioned countries in the world for missiles!

Iran to Send Russia Ballistic Missiles, Drones for War in Ukraine
https://www.haaretz.com/news/world/2...0000?_amp=true
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Old 10-16-2022, 06:11 PM
 
8,982 posts, read 11,861,036 times
Reputation: 10892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Universe93B View Post
Imagine you are trying to be the next superpower/regional empire and you have to ask one of the most heavily sanctioned countries in the world for missiles!

Iran to Send Russia Ballistic Missiles, Drones for War in Ukraine
https://www.haaretz.com/news/world/2...0000?_amp=true
Iranian drones are doing significant damages to civilians and structures in Ukraine. People laughed at me when I talked about China, North Korea, and Iran supplying Russia weapons.
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Old 10-16-2022, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,694 posts, read 5,584,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
There’s been a news blackout since yesterday on the Ukrainian side while operations are ongoing. Not sure I believe only a Russian source.
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Old 10-16-2022, 07:09 PM
 
13,877 posts, read 5,068,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Iranian drones are doing significant damages to civilians and structures in Ukraine. People laughed at me when I talked about China, North Korea, and Iran supplying Russia weapons.
It's not a laughing matter. You might term those four as the Axis of Evil, to borrow a phrase from GWB.
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Old 10-16-2022, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Tricity, PL
62,211 posts, read 88,090,317 times
Reputation: 132434
Right.
Despite evidence, Iran keeps denying giving drones to Russia

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202210077470

European foreign ministers will on Monday (17 October) discuss the transfer of Iranian drones to Russia and could come to a political agreement on future sanctions related to such activity, two diplomats said on Friday.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/eur...ure-sanctions/
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Old 10-16-2022, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,252,496 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
But somehow "The West wants to spin this thing".
The West hasn't told the truth about anything since February 24th. That isn't to say the Russians are honest. But Western lies have been so absurd it's insulting.

When dealing with reality, there are two important quotes from Friedrich Hegel to keep in the back of your mind... "Genuine tragedies in the world are not conflicts between right and wrong. They are conflicts between two rights"... and... "The rational is real, and the real is rational."


I can make a very good argument for why America needed this war, and why it is in the interests of Americans and Europeans for America to win it. Though I think John Mearsheimer gives the best explanation I've ever seen. This video was from two years ago, a month before the Covid crisis hit America.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZVIaXFN2lU
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Old 10-16-2022, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,400 posts, read 26,429,571 times
Reputation: 15709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
The West hasn't told the truth about anything since February 24th. That isn't to say the Russians are honest. But Western lies have been so absurd it's insulting.

When dealing with reality, there are two important quotes from Friedrich Hegel to keep in the back of your mind... "Genuine tragedies in the world are not conflicts between right and wrong. They are conflicts between two rights"... and... "The rational is real, and the real is rational."


I can make a very good argument for why America needed this war, and why it is in the interests of Americans and Europeans for America to win it. Though I think John Mearsheimer gives the best explanation I've ever seen. This video was from two years ago, a month before the Covid crisis hit America.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZVIaXFN2lU
Russia picked this fight, not debatable. They have been in Eastern Ukraine for 4 years, annexed Crimea and the US wanted this, come on.
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Old 10-16-2022, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,755,590 times
Reputation: 3388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
The West hasn't told the truth about anything since February 24th. That isn't to say the Russians are honest. But Western lies have been so absurd it's insulting.

When dealing with reality, there are two important quotes from Friedrich Hegel to keep in the back of your mind... "Genuine tragedies in the world are not conflicts between right and wrong. They are conflicts between two rights"... and... "The rational is real, and the real is rational."


I can make a very good argument for why America needed this war, and why it is in the interests of Americans and Europeans for America to win it. Though I think John Mearsheimer gives the best explanation I've ever seen. This video was from two years ago, a month before the Covid crisis hit America.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZVIaXFN2lU
Here is a critique John Mearsheimer. He's interesting but his reasoning is very flawed in the contemporary world. His worldview belongs in the late 19th century leading into WW1.

https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2...ins-of-realism

Quote:
But for all that, to claim this as an intellectual victory for Mearsheimer’s realism would be perverse. He is no doubt right about the underlying causes of tension. But that is not the same as actually explaining war, any more than gesturing to imperialism is an adequate explanation for why the Kaiser gave the Austrians a blank cheque in July 1914. The realist model is grossly underspecified and fails to grasp the qualitative shift implied by the opening of hostilities. The Prussian general Carl von Clausewitz may have said that war is the extension of policy by other means. But that still raises the question of why anyone, great power or not, would resort to such a radical and dangerous means.

In Moscow itself, none of the serious foreign policy establishment – all devotees to Russia’s future as a great power – believed that Putin would go to war. They were incredulous not because they do not understand the logic of power, but precisely because they do. They saw no good reason for Russia to risk employing the means of all-out war, with all its hazards, uncertainties and costs. Events are proving them right.

Morality and legality are one reason for opposing war. The other is simply that over the last century at least, it has a poor track record for delivering results. Other than wars of national liberation, one is hard pressed to name a single war of aggression since 1914 that has yielded clearly positive results for the first mover. A realism that fails to recognise that fact and the consequences that have been drawn from it by most policymakers does not deserve the name. That does not mean that wars will not occur. But to postulate the future as an endless repetition of the hyped-up militarism of 1914 is to deny any capacity for collective learning. And it is counterfactual, especially in an age of nuclear armaments. As Specter shows in his meticulous chapters on trans-Atlantic realism in the postwar period, Vietnam and nuclear armaments led the classic realists to take a decidedly cautious approach towards war. In this regard Mearsheimer’s offensive realism, a coinage of the post-Cold War era, fully deserves its name.

Last edited by JohnBoy64; 10-16-2022 at 08:31 PM..
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Old 10-16-2022, 08:35 PM
 
4,457 posts, read 5,348,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Well the Germans don't have the luxury of a large supply of burning Russians to keep them warm like the Ukranians do.
That's not the only "fuel" that they won't have a large supply of if things keep going as they are.
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Old 10-16-2022, 08:47 PM
 
13,011 posts, read 13,121,032 times
Reputation: 21920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
The West hasn't told the truth about anything since February 24th. That isn't to say the Russians are honest. But Western lies have been so absurd it's insulting.
What do you base this one?

Certainly the news that is coming out of Ukraine is biased in favor of Ukraine. That is what PR, and I would even go so far as to say propaganda, is for. But to categorically say that the "West hasn't told the truth about anything" and that the lies have been absurd that it is insulting brings that to another level.

What verifiable documentation are you basing your statements on? Please feel free to provide evidence for your statements.
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