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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 200 39.76%
No 254 50.50%
Unsure 49 9.74%
Voters: 503. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-12-2022, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,753,493 times
Reputation: 3388

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancers View Post
You know sometimes you just gotta take the L. Or you can hold to 0. Right now Odessa is in the hands of Ukraine. If this goes on and Zelensky or whoever is calling the shots doesn't negotiate Odessa goes to Russia and Ukraine will lose access to the Black Sea.

Big mistake believing the BS coming out of the Western Media. Ukraine has suffered much more loss of life and injuries to soldiers. Ukraine's best military has already been killed. The last two days show how Russia will fight if this continues. You think they want to go hand to hand? Russia will fight this on their terms not the West's.
Hopefully someone can smack some sense into those in charge but this is making the MIC too much money.
You are putting an awful lot of confidence in the Russian military. I'm not seeing that. Ukraine is the one seizing the initiative (outside of bombing civilians) and taking back their own land. Wars are won at the infantry level. Ukraine has been under total mobilization for 8 months now. Now you have battle hardened crack Ukrainian units fighting with both old Soviet and Western weapons...on their own soil. Their morale is high and they truly believe they can win this war. What does Russia have?? They have burned through their elite forces and are now scraping the bottom of the barrel. They don't have the proper logistics to implement their mobilization and they are sending warm bodies with inadequate training, gear, clothing, shelter, food and arms. Russia's biggest threat isn't Ukraine...it's mutiny.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:43 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,712 posts, read 17,486,093 times
Reputation: 37539
The Rooskateers are outraged. They encourage anyone who will listen - and that's not really very many - to believe Russia will be just fine if "we" just give them what they want. It's only land, we are told, and besides, many of the people in those lands are really Russian anyway.

European leaders disagree. They went into business with Russia and are paying a high price for doing so. If European leaders want to continue the war it will be continued.


The war is costing Russia its entire economy. Russia was doing pretty well before they started expanding. But that's the problem with your president being the richest man in the world - there is never enough for him and his band of oligarchs. Now, they have set out on a path to become a huge, irrelevant country. It will probably be a long path, but they are well on their way.


700,000 of the best people in Russia have left the country. 1200 productive companies have left. $300B in Russian reserve money has been locked up. Trade has been virtually halted with 49 countries. 23 countries are sending weapons to Ukraine. Russia anticipated some of this, but believed all of it would be in the past by December. It won't. Not December of 2022, anyway.

This won't end well for Russia. They will never again be the country they were in January of this year.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Durham NC
5,255 posts, read 3,842,471 times
Reputation: 3786
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
You are putting an awful lot of confidence in the Russian military. I'm not seeing that. Ukraine is the one seizing the initiative (outside of bombing civilians) and taking back their own land. Wars are won at the infantry level. Ukraine has been under total mobilization for 8 months now. Now you have battle hardened crack Ukrainian units fighting with both old Soviet and Western weapons...on their own soil. Their morale is high and they truly believe they can win this war. What does Russia have?? They have burned through their elite forces and are now scraping the bottom of the barrel. They don't have the proper logistics to implement their mobilization and they are sending warm bodies with inadequate training, gear, clothing, shelter, food and arms. Russia's biggest threat isn't Ukraine...it's mutiny.

You lost me at bombing civilians. Donbass don't count right? Look we will never agree. Russia will overrun any resistance the West can put up. But let's just see how this plays out cause from what I see Ukraine has lost a lot of land in the East and Russia has taken out electricity and water with the first round of missile strikes. Ukraine should be able to work that out shortly but Ukraine is just playing whack a mole now.

Russia has burned through their elite forces? Other way around. But all this is speculation right? Let's see how this plays out cause unless you change the definition of winning Ukraine is most definitely losing.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:50 AM
 
3,113 posts, read 945,928 times
Reputation: 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The war is costing Russia its entire economy.
Not just Russia, the world is entering a depression in 2023: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/11/b...-forecast.html

All the leading indicators are aligning, expect a lot of pain here, with a government already broke and 32 Trillion in debt.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Durham NC
5,255 posts, read 3,842,471 times
Reputation: 3786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
The Rooskateers are outraged. They encourage anyone who will listen - and that's not really very many - to believe Russia will be just fine if "we" just give them what they want. It's only land, we are told, and besides, many of the people in those lands are really Russian anyway.

European leaders disagree. They went into business with Russia and are paying a high price for doing so. If European leaders want to continue the war it will be continued.


The war is costing Russia its entire economy. Russia was doing pretty well before they started expanding. But that's the problem with your president being the richest man in the world - there is never enough for him and his band of oligarchs. Now, they have set out on a path to become a huge, irrelevant country. It will probably be a long path, but they are well on their way.


700,000 of the best people in Russia have left the country. 1200 productive companies have left. $300B in Russian reserve money has been locked up. Trade has been virtually halted with 49 countries. 23 countries are sending weapons to Ukraine. Russia anticipated some of this, but believed all of it would be in the past by December. It won't. Not December of 2022, anyway.

This won't end well for Russia. They will never again be the country they were in January of this year.
The Russian economy will be fine Europe unless it starts to think straight and make an attempt to sit down with Russia will be done and dusted. Burning garbage and draping yourself in blankets is not a long term strategy. Or you could wait a few years and buy energy at triple the price from the USA. That was the plan anyway.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:52 AM
 
Location: NYC
5,205 posts, read 4,697,279 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancers View Post
You lost me at bombing civilians. Donbass don't count right? Look we will never agree. Russia will overrun any resistance the West can put up. But let's just see how this plays out cause from what I see Ukraine has lost a lot of land in the East and Russia has taken out electricity and water with the first round of missile strikes. Ukraine should be able to work that out shortly but Ukraine is just playing whack a mole now.

Russia has burned through their elite forces? Other way around. But all this is speculation right? Let's see how this plays out cause unless you change the definition of winning Ukraine is most definitely losing.
I agree. Let's see where Russia is in 10 to 20 years. I'm just glad I'm not Russian.
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Old 10-12-2022, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,753,493 times
Reputation: 3388
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancers View Post
You lost me at bombing civilians. Donbass don't count right? Look we will never agree. Russia will overrun any resistance the West can put up. But let's just see how this plays out cause from what I see Ukraine has lost a lot of land in the East and Russia has taken out electricity and water with the first round of missile strikes. Ukraine should be able to work that out shortly but Ukraine is just playing whack a mole now.

Russia has burned through their elite forces? Other way around. But all this is speculation right? Let's see how this plays out cause unless you change the definition of winning Ukraine is most definitely losing.
This looks realistic to me

Russia’s ‘irrecoverable losses’ in Ukraine: more than 90,000 troops dead, disabled, or AWOL

https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/10/12...sabled-or-awol

You can believe whatever fantasy that you want to believe in. There are people who are qualified in assessing Russia's situation. Right now Putin is having to come to grips with his limits on hard power that he has available to him moving forward. There is No Elite calvary to the rescue. What you see right now is only going to grow weaker.
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Old 10-12-2022, 09:07 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,712 posts, read 17,486,093 times
Reputation: 37539
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
Not just Russia, the world is entering a depression in 2023: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/11/b...-forecast.html

All the leading indicators are aligning, expect a lot of pain here.............
The problem for Russia and others will be the decreasing population. Working their way out of the recession/depression they caused will not be possible. The loss of population cause by low birth rate and war losses, coupled with loss of revenue due to sanctions and boycotts will make recovery impossible for Russia.
The US remains the destination of choice for those with an actual choice, and its population is expected to grow for many years to come. For now, jobs are still out there for the taking in The US.
Naysayers have been shrieking for generations about the US debt. The US dollar is still the world standard.
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Old 10-12-2022, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
4,637 posts, read 3,837,070 times
Reputation: 5399
The Ukrainian military shoots down Russian helicopters, while the coward Russian generals fire more missiles today - at a market and killing "regular" people. And you describe this as winning? Russia looks like it will fail at this objective! Putin has nowhere to go! What will he do, not sure but he'll get even more desperate soon! Does Russia even know how to hit military targets anymore?



Ukraine’s armed forces on Wednesday downed four Russian helicopters in 18 minutes in the south of the country.

Between 8.40am and 8.58am, anti-aircraft missile units of Ukraine’s Air Force managed to hit the Russian aircrafts, it was claimed.

“Combat work was carried out on two more helicopters, so there is a high probability that the number of confirmed down helicopters will increase,” the Air Force said in a press release.

It was claimed one Russian helicopter, believed to be a Ka-52, crashed on territory recently liberated from Russian-backed militants, while the rest crashed behind enemy lines.

The helicopters were said to be “providing fire support to ground occupation troops in the southern direction” when they were gunned down.

The claims were partially confirmed by pro-Russian sources on the Telegram messaging app.
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Old 10-12-2022, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,694 posts, read 5,579,994 times
Reputation: 8827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
As someone that spent a couple of years with boots on the ground in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, war isn't near as fun as you may think. I suggest you volunteer to put your life on the line if you want to continue promoting war.

This war, because it dramatically affects energy and food supplies is going to result in mass starvation and thousands freezing to death this winter and has the potential to become nuclear which could kill millions and accelerate Global Warming.
Canada is a big wheat exporter. Article dated August 30: Canadian wheat output expected to soar in 2022-23
Quote:
Canadian wheat production in the 2022-23 marketing year is forecast to increase 55% over the previous year to 34.6 million tonnes, according to the latest projections from Statistics Canada. If realized, it would be the third largest wheat crop in Canadian history.
Quote:
The country’s other grain crops also are expected to see an increase in output, the agency said. Canola production is expected to rise by 42% to 19.5 million tonnes in 2022-23, as growing conditions in the Prairies improved considerably relative to 2021, pushing yields higher.
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