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Personally, I think you dont give Ukrainians enough credit. In the end they are fighting for their country. For most people, if they are fighting for their own home and family, they are not going to care if them fighting always benefits someone else.
Are you paying attention at what UAman is asking here over and over again
"Ok, how long, 1 more year, 2, 3, 5?
How many more Ukrainians will die? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?"
"Without the direct NATO’s intervention this war can go on for years.
Is it OK? Does that suit everyone?"
Because without American money Ukraine would have already financially collapsed, the war would be over, no more people dying.
Not to mention that it would be over without all those weapons supplied by America.
But the US supplies just enough to keep this war going and observing more and more people killed, and this goes to both Ukrainians and Russians.
That's what money are for.
And if you will argue that it's not the case, then when Americans are planing to bring the boots on the ground in Ukraine, so that Ukrainians would be the only ones dying for American interests?
It seems the ones that have been doing most of the fighting are prisoners who were promised early release if they agreed to serve as cannon fodder for Putin's military adventure in Ukraine.
The average Russian "mobik" is fighting for the interests of his own country, because as Donbassians warned them already long time ago, that attack on Donbass was not about just Donbass. It were long-term American goals regarding Russia as a whole.
What kind of *future* America had for Russia in mind.
It seems the ones that have been doing most of the fighting are prisoners who were promised early release if they agreed to serve as cannon fodder for Putin's military adventure in Ukraine.
No, they are fighting for the very right of Zelensky government to exist.
You mean for Ukraine to exist.
If Ukraine was to give up right now, do you think that nothing in Ukraine would change? That Russia would just go, ok, we win. It will stay the same for you.
Except, there are tons of interviews from these people explaining their situation. Some of them were executed on the front line for trying to flee. One had his head smashed in with a sledge hammer. His journey was described quite well, from prison to front line, to having his head tied down with a rope and smashed in. He didn't realize he was going to be sent on a journey that he had little hope of surviving. Only that he could get a free get out of jail card if he signed on the dotted line, while sitting in a cold prison cell.
Putin treats these men like criminals to be abused and ground to a pulp because that's what most of them are. They are not professional soldiers. They exist to serve as cannon fodder to wear away at Ukraine's army and deplete their munitions, supplies, equipment, etc. Then the professionals will be sent in if there is an escalation, or it becomes obvious that Ukraine cannot defend itself any longer.
There are more professional soldiers now than before I would assume, but I don't think they make up the majority yet. Or perhaps the soldiers being sent out are just poorly trained.
If Ukraine was to give up right now, do you think that nothing in Ukraine would change? That Russia would just go, ok, we win. It will stay the same for you.
I doubt it.
In a sense that's accurate. The government that allows Stepan Bandera avenue to go on being Stepan Bandera avenue would be removed and the country expunged of the fanatical element that's plagued their country going back to the days when the grandfather of Canada's deputy prime minister was the chief editor of the collaborationist paper in Ukraine.
If Ukraine was to give up right now, do you think that nothing in Ukraine would change? That Russia would just go, ok, we win. It will stay the same for you.
I doubt it.
Currently, there is no one unified outlook on it in Russia.
Initially, at the beginning of the "SMO," the way Putin envisioned it, was just the removal of the post 2014 Ukr. government, with the rest "staying the same."
I think that was his original plan, that's why he tiptoed around Ukrainian civilian population (and not only,) at the beginning of SMO, trying to convince everyone, that "everything will remain the same in Ukraine, just the government will be different, like in older times."
But the more things were developing NOT according to the original plan, the more the "end goals" were changing.
And the more fierce Ukrainian resistance was, and the more Western weaponry was supplied, the more Russian outlook on Ukraine was changing.
So the Kremlin's official outlook for now is whatever areas they stated they wanted to cut off from Ukraine, plus guarantees of Ukraine's neutral status, but the way many in the Russian military see it, the "Ukrainian question" must be solved in far more drastic ways.
So there is no one clear-cut single version, what the end goal for Russia is in Ukraine for now.
Currently, there is no one unified outlook on it in Russia.
Initially, at the beginning of the "SMO," the way Putin envisioned it, was just the removal of the post 2014 Ukr. government, with the rest "staying the same."
I think that was his original plan, that's why he tiptoed around Ukrainian civilian population (and not only,) at the beginning of SMO, trying to convince everyone, that "everything will remain the same in Ukraine, just the government will be different, like in older times."
But the more things were developing NOT according to the original plan, the more the "end goals" were changing.
And the more fierce Ukrainian resistance was, and the more Western weaponry was supplied, the more Russian outlook on Ukraine was changing.
So the Kremlin's official outlook for now is whatever areas they stated they wanted to cut off from Ukraine, plus guarantees of Ukraine's neutral status, but the way many in the Russian military see it, the "Ukrainian question" must be solved in far more drastic ways.
So there is no one clear-cut single version, what the end goal for Russia is in Ukraine for now.
Yet you just said, "No, they are fighting for the very right of Zelensky government to exist." That would mean, at least according in your opinion, that the current government would be gone. So sounds like there is at least some sort of goal.
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