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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.88%
No 254 50.40%
Unsure 49 9.72%
Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-01-2023, 08:48 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,362 posts, read 108,635,951 times
Reputation: 116452

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post

And, please, be a smart poster. Before posting something sucked out of nowhere, do basic research:


According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, the United States remains the world's largest arms exporter responsible for 38.6 percent of international arms sales between 2017 and 2021, up from 32.2 percent between 2012 and 2016. During the most recent time span, the country supplied arms to more than 100 countries.
Russia remains in second position, but its share has been decreasing. Between 2017 and 2021, the country was responsible for 18.6 percent of global arms exports. Between 2012 and 2016, it had been 24.1 percent.


https://www.statista.com/chart/18417...apons-exports/


US is pretty much twice the supplier, twice responsible for how those weapons will be used. Sheesh...
It's so interesting, that Sweden would issue this analysis. Sweden's economy has depended to a significant degree on arms sales around the world, though they've cut back tremendously in just the last year. It's been one of Sweden's dirty little secrets for generations, that some of its citizens have been disapproving of.

But the point is, that the US exports much more than just raw materials and arms; it has a diverse economy. Russia for the most part is operating on a 3rd World model, overly dependent on fuel exports. Russia has a LOT of unrealized potential, given the high level of education of its population. Russia (before the war) had the potential to be an economic powerhouse, if it could only learn to stay out of its own way.
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Old 06-01-2023, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Anchorage
2,171 posts, read 1,760,598 times
Reputation: 5731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
The Winter Offensive became the Spring Offensive. The Spring Offensive has become the Summer Offensive. The Summer Offensive will become the Fall Offensive.

I don't know how anyone can possibly put a positive spin on this for Ukraine. The only thing that is clear is that this war is going to drag out for a long, long, long, long time.

Drones have attacked the Kremlin and other parts of Moscow. They've hit several oil terminals/refineries inside Russia. They've attacked other targets inside Russian. They attacked a Russian spy ship in the Black Sea. They even made a brief incursion into Russia.


Those are all offensive moves. It's already started, just not in some sort of Shock and Awe that everyone seems to expect.
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Old 06-01-2023, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,967 posts, read 2,746,709 times
Reputation: 7766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northrick View Post
Drones have attacked the Kremlin and other parts of Moscow. They've hit several oil terminals/refineries inside Russia. They've attacked other targets inside Russian. They attacked a Russian spy ship in the Black Sea. They even made a brief incursion into Russia.


Those are all offensive moves. It's already started, just not in some sort of Shock and Awe that everyone seems to expect.
I suppose you're right..they don't even have enough planes for that..they don't have air superiority either..plus they have been slow rolled their promised NATO weapons for over a year..
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Old 06-01-2023, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Etobicoke
1,597 posts, read 906,523 times
Reputation: 1029
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Not according to astronomy. Ukraine is on the same planet as the rest of us. June 21 will the longest day of the year in the northern hemisphere and the start of summer.

https://www.almanac.com/content/firs...ummer-solstice
There are two definitions to start of summer. One of them is meteorological.
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Old 06-01-2023, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
854 posts, read 340,401 times
Reputation: 1446
More skirmishes in Belgorod today. It looks like the opening move for the spring offensive is to force Russia to defend Russia to pull troops away from Ukraine.
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Old 06-01-2023, 12:09 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,362 posts, read 108,635,951 times
Reputation: 116452
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Yes, this was the whole idea of the post-Soviet nineties, to turn Russia in the appendix of the natural resources supplied to the West.

This is what the West primarily wanted, it was something worth a lot of money, and that's how Russia could easily enter the "global economy" and make ruble convertible currency overnight. That's what Yeltisn signed for, and when he passed the power to Putin, the only thing that Putin changed, was returning the control of oil/gas industry to Russian corporations, instead of leaving it to the Western ones ( as it was under Yeltsin.)
And that's what in turn infuriated Washington. That's where the spat with Putin began.

So this economy "overly dependent on resource extraction" takes its roots in the 90ies, under Yeltsin. Putin simply continued it.

Medvedev who?

A man who kept Putin's seat warm for a couple of years?

THAT Medvedev?
lol Yes, that Medvedev.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure;
No, that's not exactly "Soviet era orientation." Soviet era ( good or bad) was all about its own industries, not a part of the globalists.

What you are talking about Ruth, is a POST-SOVIET orientation of the nineties, that Russia operates on until today.
Russia turned to oil and gas exports (it always had been exporting oil, and I don't know about gas, back in the Soviet period anyway) because that's all it had after 1990, and that's what underdeveloped countries usually rely on to run their economy on, until (if ever) they manage to develop some kind of manufacturing or other value-added production. That's always the first step, and in 1990-91, Russian was back at Square One in terms of economic development.

BUT, also, the development of natural gas lines to Europe was a stategic move by the current Tsar. Not only would it bring in needed revenue, but it could be used to political ends if necessary. There were no gas pipelines to Europe in the 90's, so that wasn't part of any plan or conspiracy or what-have-you.

Western companies controlled Russia's petroleum production under Yeltsin? As part of a conspiracy to weaken Russia or control it?
Russia had no capital after 1991 with which to pursue its own oil extraction, with the possible exception of a few oligarchs. Furthermore, while after Yeltsin, some foreign operations were shut down (notably British Petroleum and Royal Dutch Shell), others were allowed to operate and even proliferate. Mainly Canadian and American companies, interestingly enough. (I researched this, after the Tsar shut down BP and Shell's operations on Sakhalin.) And the fact is, that many Western oil companies have continued to operate in Russia well into 2022, including on Sakhalin, although many of them started to pull out, and to pull out their shares in Rosneft and other Russian companies after sanctions were imposed.

At the same time as Putin was telling the Russian public that the West, and especially the US, were the enemy (during his first administration I noticed this), he was busy arranging for Western, including American, development in the oil fields. No one was twisting his arm behind the scenes, or otherwise forcing him to do this. Russia needed the foreign investment capital, it's as simple as that. No conspiracy theories.

This reminds me of Russia after the Revolution and WWI, when the country was in ruins, and Lenin invited American industrialists to jump-start the economy with their capitalism, calling it the "New Economic Plan". Nobody held a gun to Lenin's head; he did this of his own accord. He was desperate to do anything that would help Russia rebuild. Russia unfortunately was in a similar position again, after 1990, and even into the 2000's.


The post-Soviet economy in some respects looks like the Soviet economy to me. There still is a neglect of light industry and consumer goods development. Importing everything from the West, China and India, rather than producing its own consumer goods, means risking an unfavorable balance of trade for Russia (importing more than the value of its exports, potentially). That's not healthy for any nation's economy. But perhaps the oil and gas sales to the West and East both, make this possible.

Teachers, university faculty, medical staff, researchers, managers, museum staff, etc. still make low salaries that haven't improved much since austerity of the crisis decade of the 90's (not counting any decrease since the war), although there was some recovery, mercifully. The pay is still not far above that of factory and office workers, along the socialist model of everyone making close to the same pay. The big difference now is in private business, where business owners and managers have the opportunity to earn good pay by their own efforts.

The way I see it (and I know you and I disagree on this point), the problem in the 90's was, that the loans to Russia were structured in such a way that the plan inadvertently encouraged the elite in Russia to siphon loan money out of the country into foreign bank accounts. This brought about a second economic crash in 1998. This was not intentional on the part of the West, or the World Bank, or the Harvard advisors to Yeltsin.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 06-01-2023 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 06-01-2023, 12:59 PM
 
26,873 posts, read 22,739,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
lol Yes, that Medvedev.

Russia turned to oil and gas exports (it always had been exporting oil, and I don't know about gas, back in the Soviet period anyway) because that's all it had after 1990, and that's what underdeveloped countries usually rely on to run their economy on, until (if ever) they manage to develop some kind of manufacturing or other value-added production. That's always the first step, and in 1990-91, Russian was back at Square One in terms of economic development.

"All it had after 1990" for the purpose of "quick conversion of Russian currency" and "Russia being integrated in the "global economy."
That's precisely what I said. The globalists were sitting in Russian government ( actually took over it,) working hand in hand with Western powers and steadily destroying everything in Russia that would contradict the globalist ideas. And THAT'S WHY after 1990 Russia all of a sudden "didn't have anything but oil and gas."

Quote:
BUT, also, the development of natural gas lines to Europe was a stategic move by the current Tsar. Not only would it bring in needed revenue, but it could be used to political ends if necessary. There were no gas pipelines to Europe in the 90's, so that wasn't part of any plan or conspiracy or what-have-you.
That's precisely the continuity of the same ideas/thoughts from the end of the 80ies ( and particularly nineties) in Russia. No "conspiracies" here.

Quote:
Western companies controlled Russia's petroleum production under Yeltsin?
Yes, think Yukos ( and not only I'm sure) and its owner Khodarkovsky, who currently is all about "freedom loving democratic opposition" to Putin. The late Nemtsov was from the same mold as I remember.

Quote:
As part of a conspiracy to weaken Russia or control it?
Both.

Quote:
Russia had no capital after 1991 with which to pursue its own oil extraction, with the possible exception of a few oligarchs.
And who were those people and where THEIR capital came from and why/how did they get it in the first place?


Quote:
Furthermore. while after Yeltsin, some foreign operations were shut down (notably British Petroleum and Royal Dutch Shell), others were allowed to operate and even proliferate. Mainly Canadian and American companies, interestingly enough. (I researched this, after the Tsar shut down BP and Shell's operations on Sakhalin.)
It was all about "personal agreements" and who could figure out how to "cooperate" with Russians better and on what terms if you know what I mean.


Quote:
And the fact is, that many Western oil companies have continued to operate in Russia well into 2022, including on Sakhalin, although many of them started to pull out, and to pull out their shares in Rosneft and other Russian companies after sanctions were imposed.
Of course they were always there. It's just the rules of the game changed under Putin.

Quote:
At the same time as Putin was telling the public the West, and especially the US, were the enemy (during his first administration I noticed this), he was busy arranging for Western, including American, development in the oil fields. No one was twisting his arm behind the scenes, or otherwise forcing him to do this.
Of course not.

Putin was pursuing very "globalists ideas" at least for the first 10-15 years of his presidency.

He changed his tune only within the last 3-4 years the most.


Quote:
Russia needed the foreign investment capital, it's as simple as that. No conspiracy theories. This reminds me of Russia after the Revolution and WWI, when the country was in ruins, and Lenin invited American industrialists to jump-start the economy with their capitalism, calling it the "New Economic Plan".
Yes, Yavlinsky was personally working on that consortium Sakhalin-1 mentioning the reference to Lenin's times as a precedent.

The thing is, he wanted to use that project IN CONJUNCTION with other measures implemented in Russian economy. The OTHER measures ( equally important according to his plans) were however rejected, while the consortium agreement went ahead with all the twists and turns it morphed in along the way.

As the result of it all Yavlinsky was slandered as a biggest "corrupt dealer" and shut down from any future presidential races, in which he once participated.

Quote:
Nobody held a gun to Lenin's head; he did this of his own accord. He was desperate to do anything that would help Russia rebuild. Russia unfortunately was in a similar position again, after 1990, and even into the 2000's.
Except for back in the 20ies, it was clear why Russia changed its course after its economy improved with Lenin's NEP. It was all about the discrepancy between the ideology and economy.

However the 90ies were the whole different story.

They clearly showed what the West had in mind for Russia, had it agree to continue the path, facilitated by the globalists, sitting in the Russian government in the 90ies.
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Old 06-01-2023, 01:19 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 11,856,074 times
Reputation: 10891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adhom View Post
I can't tell where you live but since the war started, I have talked to a lot of Russians who live in America. They may be like you, living here but secretly hates our guts. I wish all of you Russians would just go home. Go work on that Pan Slavic dreamland you are pining for.
The Finns agree with you. With so many Russians living in Finland, they are worried about Russian spies/bots working in Finland.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uu2skrx1UY
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Old 06-01-2023, 02:23 PM
 
5,112 posts, read 2,785,398 times
Reputation: 6966
Quote:
Originally Posted by double6's View Post
I suppose you're right..they don't even have enough planes for that..they don't have air superiority either..plus they have been slow rolled their promised NATO weapons for over a year..
Weak offensive = weak results
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Old 06-01-2023, 03:24 PM
 
19,208 posts, read 27,838,738 times
Reputation: 20328
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post

They clearly showed what the West had in mind for Russia, had it agree to continue the path, facilitated by the globalists, sitting in the Russian government in the 90ies.
And that's the problem.
Pretty much, the entire government and beaurocracy, ever since, all the way down to the local small functionaries, was started in that period. Their children grew in that paradigm and mentality. That being - by any means possible do NOT allow and development of Russia. Turn it into the raw materials supplier, and cheap to it, for the West. Russian Central Bank in its statute is not allowed to do or permit any structural investments into the Russian economy.
Millimeter by millimeter, the country slowly drags itself out of that swamp.
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