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I saw it. It made the point that invasions can be good or bad. But it offered no justification for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Per default, no matter what Russia does, it is Orcs eating children and drinking blood.
May I make a suggestion, please?
Before coming to conclusions like this, do a basic count, how many times, in its history, has Russia been invaded and, how many time sit invaded anyone else. Particularly, on global scale. Like an exemplary pillar of democracy, invading any country anywhere in the world, right or wrong, as far as it suits its current interests.
Do the math.
Okay got it, so that's why entire blocks of apartment buildings are hit at a time?
Look at Russia's history in how they conducted the Chechnya war. They could care less about civilians and collateral damage. They like to flatten cities and then claim "victory." Well of course, there's nothing left except Earth!
The current state of Russia and their government is evil. They must be disposed of.
I'm not going to make any excuses for war crimes perpetrated by the Russian military during the Chechen wars. Still, 100,000 civilians killed at the highest projections placed out there by the West (with the Chechens themselves no doubt responsible for a good number of those, especially as they resorted to guerilla warfare tactics) versus the US's top estimate of 42,000 in Ukraine, probably from what they gleaned from Ukrainian government sources; the videos put out of war crimes in Ukraine generally show civilians being held in buildings by Ukrainian soldiers or reprisals getting meted out by the Ukrainian SBU in an area they 'liberated'.
The government that needs to be disposed of are the ones who venerate an odious Nazi collaborator that presided over the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Poles, Jews and Ukrainians. It's an institution that places individuals like Svyatoslav Litinsky as linguistics mediator by the Ukrainian ministry of culture who referred to Russians as 'pig-dogs'. They promulgate literature that endeavours to whitewash other Nazi collaborators such as Bulba Borovets and distribute it in Ukrainian libraries. Mind you, that's the in the realm of their cultural and academic ministries. If you want more overtly transparent displays of hostility towards the Russian population in Ukraine then I would point you towards former Ukrainian president Poroshenko's rhetoric against not 'separatists' engaged in the Donbass but the child civilians and how they would be huddled in basements. A member of their parliament, Irina Farian, goes on record to decry Russians living in Ukraine as 'slaves and occupiers'. If you want the biggest admission to their sympathies then look no further than the UNGA76 vote that sought to contest the glorification of neo-nazism - only two countries voted against it and one of them was Ukraine.
Tell me how in light of the actions and statements put out by the aforementioned Ukrainian government it can be interpreted as anything of positive or democratic nature? The United States, in spite of its espoused moral platitudes about human rights, voted against the same UN resolution and has been arming and training extremist military elements of the Ukrainian military despite efforts previously to ban such allowances. But yet this is the government that the news outlets and media in the West believe we should be supporting.
The Russians have been engaging in an urban environment where hostile forces are holed up in locations such as high rise buildings that can afford them a tactical advantage against Russian forces.
I expect more of it to come in Belgorod , in Kursk, in Bryansk regions and so on.
And may be even closer to Moscow.
Silly Ukrainians don't understand that by their actions they only bring "Wagner" and such closer and closer to their political victory in Russia.
I am listening to the extensive interview with Prigozhin today - if he didn't throw his hat yet into the ring earlier, he definitely did it today, when talking about the current/developing situation in Russia, plus certain details about his past ( that "Putin's chief" including and where it came from.)
I see the reports of at least one person who was killed by Ukrainians in Belgorod region, since he had the "Territorial defense" uniform somewhere, but without the gun being given to him by the Russian government. ( They are still afraid to give people permission for that, even for self-defense.)
So as Prigozhin referred to it all - he is a "law abiding citizen," but if the Russian government will not wake up and change its ways, people will not put up with the way this war is going.
P.S. I learned yesterday as well that apparently "plenty of Ukrainians are fighting in Wagner."
That's what one of its soldiers said, while showing around in captured Bakhmut.
So you support the death of the 10s of thousands of people?
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Originally Posted by hawk55732
The invasion was not inevitable. There was a purpose able decision by Putin to invade. He could have not invaded.
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Originally Posted by hawk55732
You dont understand what inevitable means do you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732
No, you dont. An action such as an army invading another country is not inevitable. It is a choice.
That's like saying America bombing Japanese cites wasn't inevitable after Pearl Harbor because America going to war against Japan was a "choice" since we could have just surrendered. Think of all the lives that would have saved.
When we talk about inevitabilities, what we're really talking about is expected outcomes. This war was inevitable insofar as we pushed Russia against the wall, and Russia really had no choice but to act. Had the shoe been on the other foot, America would have done the same(or worse).
The truth is, we knew exactly what we were doing in Ukraine. We wanted this war, and Ukraine knew the war was coming long in advance. It wasn't some great mystery for anyone who understands geopolitics.
The war became inevitable the moment Victoria Nuland said "**** the EU". The Ukraine Civil War could only end in either a Ukrainian invasion of Crimea and the Donbas, or Ukraine implementing the Minsk Accords. But as Angela Merkel and others have explained, the Minsk Agreements were only intended to buy time to arm Ukraine. Ukraine was never going to implement them. Nor did The West want them implemented.
There was going to be a war one way or the other. From Russia's perspective, this was a preemptive for the protection of ethnic-Russians in Ukraine in territories that were historically Russia. Basically, it was a defensive if not an existential war for the preservation of the Russian state.
This video talks about a RAND Corporation study that talks about American strategy against Russia from 2019. Not long after this study came out, Donald Trump started sending Javelin and other arms to Ukraine.
When apartment buildings are heavily fortified and serve as fire stations, they become legit military targets.
That AFU used normal civilian dwellings for that purpose is proven beyond any doubt.
Russia just wings missiles into population centers. Not smart technology pinpointing a target. What am I missing here?
Russia's justification for invading Ukraine is the same as America's justification for invading Cuba. The only problem is that the US hasn't invaded Cuba. The US tried the little green men approach 60 years ago but has done nothing since. We certainly have the ability to invade Cuba if we wanted to, and it is a Russian client state 90 miles off our coast, but we don't invade it. Why? Because we are not monsters. And we don't look at the world through the prism of 19th century style nationalist colonialism.
What Russia is doing in Ukraine is monstrous. The people who are defending it are monsters. It is important that those of us arguing on the other side realize that. We are debating this with people who have no moral compass, and who value national glory more than human life. They are so cynical that they believe everybody else sees the world through the same vile prism that they do. You cannot reason with them, you can only defeat them or allow them to consume the more civilized parts of the world.
Why? Because we are not monsters. And we don't look at the world through the prism of 19th century style nationalist colonialism.
America was literally ready to start a nuclear war to keep Russia out of Cuba. Are you high? The only reason war was avoided was because Russia backed off.
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