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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 198 39.52%
No 254 50.70%
Unsure 49 9.78%
Voters: 501. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-08-2023, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,945 posts, read 25,072,371 times
Reputation: 28661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
The idea that Trump could be president of the United States once more when making these kind of insane commentary is terrifying.

I like how the world was a very peaceful place when Trump was president... Almost as if, our adversaries actually respected us enough not to cause trouble. That is clearly not the case today... Wonder why?
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Old 03-08-2023, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,963 posts, read 2,740,316 times
Reputation: 7761
eastern front update..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKvcp3MYxQk
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Old 03-08-2023, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Texas
37,963 posts, read 17,953,136 times
Reputation: 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
The idea that Trump could be president of the United States once more when making these kind of insane commentary is terrifying. Why are people still giving attention to this clown who undermines democracy and is willing to take the most ridiculous contrarian takes just to score points with the populist conspiracy types. He belongs in prison. Ukraine is not some long standing American ally like Canada or Japan, but to negotiate an appeasement of a megalomaniacal, expansionist dictator like Putin in violation of international law is just ridiculous
Ukraine needs to apologize for starting the war in 2014 and needs to pay for all the murders and destruction they caused in Donbas. They bombed and murdered their own people

We're not a democracy we're a Constitutional Republic.

Try harder please.
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Old 03-08-2023, 07:12 PM
pdw
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,722 posts, read 3,138,212 times
Reputation: 1874
Forcing the Ukraine government to cede territory to Russia is not a strategy. They didn’t stop with Crimea, nor the Donbass. They want to annex territory all the way to the Dnieper river and there’s been murmurs of them invading Moldova next if their invasion of Ukraine is successful. He will not stop. The idea that Putin gave the slightest F whether it was Trump or Biden as president is just taking everything Trump says as gospel and ignoring real world geopolitics.


^^^^Hows the weather in Moscow, Russian bot?
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Old 03-08-2023, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,246,811 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
To negotiate an appeasement of a megalomaniacal, expansionist dictator like Putin in violation of international law is just ridiculous
"Appeasement" has nothing to do with it. Let's go over the history of this so-called appeasement.

As it relates to Adolf Hitler, the first "appeasement" was the Anschluss with Austria. Hitler was Austrian and the only reason the Anschluss was a big deal was because it violated the Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of Saint-Germain. So ask yourself, why did it violate those treaties? Because after WWI the allies forced Germany and Austria to promise they they would never become the same country. And why would the allies force such a thing which violates Germany and Austria's sovereignty? Because they wanted to keep Germany weak.

Hitler then set his sights on the Sudetenland, which had been part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and was 90% German, but was given to the newly formed Czechoslovakia after WWI by the allies.

After that Hitler set his sights on Danzig, which was 95% German but was severed from Germany after WWI, as well as the entire "Polish corridor" to give Poland access to the sea, but which split Germany in half. Again, Hitler was rebuked as an evil expansionist monster.

And this ignores the fact that the Germans in those lands weren't exactly being treated nicely by the governments that came to rule over them. And after WWII, even more Germany territory was taken away and all Germans were expelled(where millions died as a result).

Ukraine is not an ethno-state. It is a country created by Bolsheviks, where a third of the country speaks Russian, and where loyalties aren't necessarily to Kiev. In many ways, Eastern Ukraine is basically the Sudetenland and Crimea is somewhat analogous to Danzig. Furthermore, the Ukrainian government is illegitimate, and they've been abusing the Russians in their territory for nearly a decade.

Before you rant about "appeasement" or "expansionism" or even "international law", you should first ask, "What is just?"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFZTlSYbEO8
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Old 03-08-2023, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Yakima yes, an apartment!
8,339 posts, read 6,830,012 times
Reputation: 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
The idea that Trump could be president of the United States once more when making these kind of insane commentary is terrifying. Why are people still giving attention to this clown who undermines democracy and is willing to take the most ridiculous contrarian takes just to score points with the populist conspiracy types. He belongs in prison. Ukraine is not some long standing American ally like Canada or Japan, but to negotiate an appeasement of a megalomaniacal, expansionist dictator like Putin in violation of international law is just ridiculous
Giving attention? Why Child, it's your news agencies doing that.

https://www.cnn.com/specials/politic...onald-trump-45

He's been out of office for two years and even CNN is STILL dredging up garbage trying to slime him.
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Old 03-08-2023, 08:55 PM
 
26,867 posts, read 22,721,322 times
Reputation: 10064
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
Forcing the Ukraine government to cede territory to Russia is not a strategy. They didn’t stop with Crimea, nor the Donbass.

I am not sure how can they stop there, if their ultimate goal is the denazification of Ukraine ( which is sorely needed if you ask me.)

How would Russians be able to denazify Germany, without taking Berlin back in 1945?


Quote:
They want to annex territory all the way to the Dnieper river and there’s been murmurs of them invading Moldova next if their invasion of Ukraine is successful. He will not stop. The idea that Putin gave the slightest F whether it was Trump or Biden as president is just taking everything Trump says as gospel and ignoring real world geopolitics.
Nah, that's NATO that is trying to rock the boat there now - I think Stoltenberg in particular. From what I remember, he is the one giving hints to Moldova, that if Moldova is tired of being the poorest country in Europe, it's about time to consider "joining the EU family" ( read NATO.)
It's all about that Transnistria region with Russian troops being stationed there, so close to Odessa.



Quote:
^^^^Hows the weather in Moscow, Russian bot?
How's the weather in Kiev?

Or is it Ivano Frankovsk?

Last edited by erasure; 03-08-2023 at 09:22 PM..
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Old 03-08-2023, 09:00 PM
 
26,867 posts, read 22,721,322 times
Reputation: 10064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
"Appeasement" has nothing to do with it. Let's go over the history of this so-called appeasement.

As it relates to Adolf Hitler, the first "appeasement" was the Anschluss with Austria. Hitler was Austrian and the only reason the Anschluss was a big deal was because it violated the Treaty of Versailles and the Treaty of Saint-Germain. So ask yourself, why did it violate those treaties? Because after WWI the allies forced Germany and Austria to promise they they would never become the same country. And why would the allies force such a thing which violates Germany and Austria's sovereignty? Because they wanted to keep Germany weak.

Hitler then set his sights on the Sudetenland, which had been part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and was 90% German, but was given to the newly formed Czechoslovakia after WWI by the allies.

After that Hitler set his sights on Danzig, which was 95% German but was severed from Germany after WWI, as well as the entire "Polish corridor" to give Poland access to the sea, but which split Germany in half. Again, Hitler was rebuked as an evil expansionist monster.

Ha, I never knew that ( about the percentage of German population in those places.)


Quote:
And this ignores the fact that the Germans in those lands weren't exactly being treated nicely by the governments that came to rule over them. And after WWII, even more Germany territory was taken away and all Germans were expelled(where millions died as a result).
Ukraine is not an ethno-state. It is a country created by Bolsheviks, where a third of the country speaks Russian, and where loyalties aren't necessarily to Kiev. In many ways, Eastern Ukraine is basically the Sudetenland and Crimea is somewhat analogous to Danzig. Furthermore, the Ukrainian government is illegitimate, and they've been abusing the Russians in their territory for nearly a decade.

Before you rant about "appeasement" or "expansionism" or even "international law", you should first ask, "What is just?"
I wondered about that part sometimes.

However, with that being said, if Putin REALLY cared about the ethnic Russians, unifying them around Russia and having this goal in mind, his actions in Ukraine would have been totally different back in 2014.
Instead, he INSISTED on Donbass remaining part of Ukraine for all eight years.

Last edited by erasure; 03-08-2023 at 09:37 PM..
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Old 03-08-2023, 09:01 PM
 
13,845 posts, read 5,044,144 times
Reputation: 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
They are lying anyway. Russia does not target civilian infrastructure.
Sure, whatever you say, Komrade
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Old 03-08-2023, 09:08 PM
 
13,845 posts, read 5,044,144 times
Reputation: 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
The cost will be far higher to the Ukrainians if Bakhmut falls. The Ukrainians are really taking far heavier casualties than the Russians.
False. The Russians are sending wave after wave of convicted criminals at Bakhmut as cannon fodder. They are being slaughtered, but of course Putin has no regard for those lives. I suppose he figures he can win a war of attrition, since he has a lot more bodies at his disposal.
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