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Totally agree. I generally just scroll past those posts and don't often read them; however, when one does succeed with their baiting, I put them on ignore for awhile so as to help myself not respond. They add nothing of any substance to the conversation so nothing is missed by not reading the posts.
It's easy to just glance and move on, or read what interests you. It's also easy to see when people are very annoyed at being ignored A lot of folks are a byproduct of this new age. TV, radio, if you want to get riled up about something, there are tons of folks out there ready to support your needs, even create passion and/or anger when there wasn't a need.
I find that there are those that continually feel the need to be right. Some shout down others continuously in order to prove they are right. Then there are those that actually view each issue separately. This is a case about someone being shot during an altercation. Since we don't have all the facts, and may never have them, it opens the doors up for those that see political/racial/whatever discussions as a way to vent their rage.
There have been a number of posts in this thread that are intellectually curious, informative, and many that provide links to great articles. Thought-provoking articles that provide more information. As adults, it's through this process that our information and thinking processes improve over time. The ability to prioritize, wade through moral and ethical issues, and become more adept at critical thinking.
There are many that don't like the process. They come at every issue from the same angle, applying inner rage and political beliefs to every subject from lemonade to cars. It's easy to tell whether someone is there to add to the discussion, or merely to pound your thoughts into submission, until you have but their agenda. Sometimes hard to ignore, but your best tactic is to ignore, it's the most powerful way to keep things on track.
It's also easier to laugh and move on, as you get older
What I do is this. I imagine myself having that kind of inner rage and spite growing inside me as I well pass middle age. Then I laugh a bit, and say No Way.
Many of these folks are pretty smart people, regardless of the position they take. They just choose not to be smart online, and some use threads just to vent their anger. Some are even paid to vent someone else's anger. How unique is that?
But fear not, there's always enough good folks to communicate with, whether or not you agree with them or not.
Are you kidding me? Who wouldn't feel bad for the kid dieting and of course if it were my son I would feel horrible and would question why in the world Zimmerman would have made the situation possible. Why couldn't he just stay in his car of course that is what he should have done.
The fact is he had the right to follow him and Trayvon had the right not to attack him. That is where reality takes over from fantasy, imagination and wishful thinking. When Trayvon made the choice to close ground and invade z body space everything else became secondary. Innocence became guilt. Right became wrong. A zealous ******* became a case of self defense. I have posted many times here that if Z so much as placed a fatherly hand on Trayvons shoulder then he deserves to rot in jail. That is the point where I defend my own son and the point where z loses all favor and empathy with me. If that truly happened and I don't believe it did I would hope that the reverse outcome would have happened.
This is the difference between myself and most of those opposed to my position. Before me it is very clear, no racism, no subjectivity, no cheering for one side or the other.
I think it is likely Z told the story honestly and the physical evidence seems to corroborate his filmed testimony.
What many of you hate about me is my genuinely held position that this case is on a secondary level more about political racism than guilt or innocence of Z. Z will walk for all these reasons and in the name of self defense he should walk.
I certainly respect your positions, my own have changed as more and more is revealed. It also made me remember why forming hasty opinions is not wise. I don't think guilt or innocence can be determined in this case yet. I have no reason to pick a "side" one way or the other. Obviously, there's far more information about Zimmerman out there than Trayvon. Partially due to age and experience, and also because only one side can give their story.
I have lingering questions about old statements, and new information, that gives me more to think about in this case. Many of those things may already have been answered behind the scenes in this case. While I don't have opinions on the outcome yet, I have 'feelings' as to what makes me suspicious about how Z's statements square up. My feelings came about due to some due diligence, but were butressed by some of his own actions, both in the past, and recent history. But it's not enough to form an opinion, more is needed.
What Seems to be now, may not be the case at all.
But aside from that, I just wish we could take this thread back to an intelligent, non-confrontational discussion of the facts and information at hand. I think you want this as well, judging by your above post. If someone doesn't agree with your opinions or statements, that's fine. Everyone forms opinions in their own time, and over time, they may well change.
I certainly respect your positions, my own have changed as more and more is revealed. It also made me remember why forming hasty opinions is not wise. I don't think guilt or innocence can be determined in this case yet. I have no reason to pick a "side" one way or the other. Obviously, there's far more information about Zimmerman out there than Trayvon. Partially due to age and experience, and also because only one side can give their story.
I have lingering questions about old statements, and new information, that gives me more to think about in this case. Many of those things may already have been answered behind the scenes in this case. While I don't have opinions on the outcome yet, I have 'feelings' as to what makes me suspicious about how Z's statements square up. My feelings came about due to some due diligence, but were butressed by some of his own actions, both in the past, and recent history. But it's not enough to form an opinion, more is needed.
What Seems to be now, may not be the case at all.
But aside from that, I just wish we could take this thread back to an intelligent, non-confrontational discussion of the facts and information at hand. I think you want this as well, judging by your above post. If someone doesn't agree with your opinions or statements, that's fine. Everyone forms opinions in their own time, and over time, they may well change.
That is an excellent post. I have no cause to discuss other than the facts. The record in its entirety not in some posters taken out of context posting, would demonstrate I react when challenged to react. There are those that believe if you don't agree you are obviously a racist and I say hooey. Don't choose your facts to suit the outcome you prefer.
My son is a black belt and owns a 45 cal. As well. I have positively no doubt what my son would have done faced with Trayvons situation. He would have called me first and failing reaching me he would have called the police. All the talk about z should not have done this or that in an imaginary preferred situation is useless drivel. Both should have acted differently but what actually happened and most important what can both sides learn from this
I believe absolutely in the right to defend life and property. You could take everything I have and I would not seek to kill you over it. I might wing you though!
Legally and morally George Zimmerman is responsible for what happened prior too, and following his confronting Trayvon Martin. He should be held accountable for the shooting death of this young man. The Court system is the place to do that....I fail to see how SYG laws apply when you don't even know where you are. We only have George's word that Trayvon laid hands on him. If he did, it was because Trayvon imo was forced to SYG against an armed man accosting him. Trayvon's only mistake was walking home alone at 7 pm, something thousands of teens do nightly. To me that is why this case is so important...beyond the fact a teen died. He died unnecessarily at the hands of a man who himself has many assaults and domestic violence charges on his record. George Zimmerman was an assault/shooting waiting to happen. Rest in peace Trayvon Martin
For the life of me I do not understand how these people don't get the simple fact that Trayvon Martin wasn't bothering anybody until somebody started bothering him in a threatening manner. And even at that, we only have Zimmerman's version of events.
The fact of the matter is that if George Zimmerman had messed with a REAL "thug". George would be the one who is dead right now.
Though the 'threatening manner' part is debateable, take everything you wrote as fact. How does it relate to murder 2 ? I follow blaming gz, criticizing his behaviors, all sorts of placing some type of wrongness on his shoulders. Seems to me your real beef is with wording of syg and self defense laws that put more emphasis on the circumstances of the confrontation itself.
Legally and morally George Zimmerman is responsible for what happened prior too, and following his confronting Trayvon Martin. He should be held accountable for the shooting death of this young man. The Court system is the place to do that....I fail to see how SYG laws apply when you don't even know where you are. We only have George's word that Trayvon laid hands on him. If he did, it was because Trayvon imo was forced to SYG against an armed man accosting him. Trayvon's only mistake was walking home alone at 7 pm, something thousands of teens do nightly. To me that is why this case is so important...beyond the fact a teen died. He died unnecessarily at the hands of a man who himself has many assaults and domestic violence charges on his record. George Zimmerman was an assault/shooting waiting to happen. Rest in peace Trayvon Martin
The fact of the matter is that if George Zimmerman had messed with a REAL "thug". George would be the one who is dead right now.
At the point when George was getting his ass whupped he most likely thought he was dealing with a REAL "thug".
The case really comes down to George's state of mind when he pulled the trigger.
To be in a physical altercation when you are armed is a dangerous situation with potentially deadly consequences. An intelligent gun owner would have not allowed a "suspicious" person within 15 feet of him. Intelligence and Zimmermen do not go together' Cinebar's drunken driving comparison was a moral equivalent of what Zimmermen did that day, I just do not feel the legal consequences are the same for similar levels of irresponsibility.
The fact is provoking an assault and then shooting someone who assaults you appears to be perfectly legal in Florida.
At the point when George was getting his ass whupped he most likely thought he was dealing with a REAL "thug".
The case really comes down to George's state of mind when he pulled the trigger.
To be in a physical altercation when you are armed is a dangerous situation with potentially deadly consequences. An intelligent gun owner would have not allowed a "suspicious" person within 15 feet of him. Intelligence and Zimmermen do not go together' Cinebar's drunken driving comparison was a moral equivalent of what Zimmermen did that day, I just do not feel the legal consequences are the same for similar levels of irresponsibility.
The fact is provoking an assault and then shooting someone who assaults you appears to be perfectly legal in Florida.
So how does the defense establish George's state of mind at the time he pulled the trigger? Defense has already filed the affirmative defense of self defense which means that Defense is required to put on evidence. How do they establish Z's state of mind if Z does not testify and how effective do you think that self-defense will be if Z does not testify? This comes down to how important Z's credibility is in this case.
So how does the defense establish George's state of mind at the time he pulled the trigger? Defense has already filed the affirmative defense of self defense which means that Defense is required to put on evidence. How do they establish Z's state of mind if Z does not testify and how effective do you think that self-defense will be if Z does not testify? This comes down to how important Z's credibility is in this case.
They will use the physical injuries. The fact there was a close in physical altercation. The evidence the bullet was fired from 2-4 inches away. The fact a gun was on George's person making any close in physical altercation exceedingly dangerous.
The fact is much of the advantage of having a gun disappears if the antogonists are engaged in physical combat. George could have easily been on the other end of the bullet. It is why I have repeatedly stated a person carrying a weapon should never allow a "suspicious" person within 15 feet of him. That weapon can be used against you.
They will use the physical injuries. The fact there was a close in physical altercation. The evidence the bullet was fired from 2-4 inches away. The fact a gun was on George's person making any close in physical altercation exceedingly dangerous.
The fact is much of the advantage of having a gun disappears if the antogonists are engaged in physical combat. George could have easily been on the other end of the bullet. It is why I have repeatedly stated a person carrying a weapon should never allow a "suspicious" person within 15 feet of him. That weapon can be used against you.
George wil not testify. He ain't that stupid.
IMO, that is really, really weak evidence of fear for his life without his testimony. G's injuries look minor. Of course there most likely will be medical experts for both sides on that question. I didn't see the 2 to 4 inches distance in the ME report, but, of course the ME will testify for sure; no doubt about that. Even if George does not testify, those audio and video recording will likely come in through police testimony. The jury will see and hear them, IMO, and note the contradictions and inconsistencies. I just don't think that the physical evidence of Z's injuries, etc., will stand up very well against all the police reports, etc. I'd guess there are concealed firearms class instructors on both sides of this question regarding Z's actions, so if one side puts on an "expert" in training, the other side will too. So if what you suggest as the defense's evidence is all they have, then O'Mara would have to make a spectacular closing argument to try to win the case. And of course the State makes closing arguments too.
I'm not convinced that George "ain't that stupid." George certainly seems arrogant in his stupidity and appears convinced that if he can just "talk" to people he can talk his way out of things.
Last edited by FancyFeast5000; 07-01-2012 at 12:04 PM..
Reason: typo
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I generally just scroll past those posts and don't often read them; however, when one does succeed with their baiting, I put them on ignore for awhile so as to help myself not respond. They add nothing of any substance to the conversation so nothing is missed by not reading the posts.
A lot of folks are a byproduct of this new age. TV, radio, if you want to get riled up about something, there are tons of folks out there ready to support your needs, even create passion and/or anger when there wasn't a need. 
