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Honestly, I don't think it matters who threw the first punch. If Trayvon threw the first punch, he could very well have done so because he felt threatened. If Zimmerman threw the first punch, maybe he felt that he was detaining some smart-ass kid who wouldn't answer his questions in an acceptable or timely manner.
To me, the bottom line is that none of this would have happened if Zimmerman would have just done what a "neighborhood watch" person is supposed to do - be observant and report suspicious activity and not get directly involved.
And I believe there should be consequences for the fact that he didn't do just that - that he went above and beyond what he, an untrained and unauthorized citizen, should have done.
If it had been left up to law enforcement, the most likely scenario would have been that a couple of cops would have approached Trayvon, asked him what he was doing in the neighborhood, probably asked him for some sort of identification, and then watched him until he returned to the home he said he was headed to.
No dead kid, no grieving parents, no Zimmerman getting on-line donations to his defense fund, and none of us debating about it here on City Data.
Unless he was just watching and reporting to the police and was headed back to his vehicle to wait for the police and was jumped by Martin. If that's the case, then GZ is innocent. I think that's his story, but right now, who knows? Most of the posts on here are either people who say GZ's guilty and needs to be punished and people who say we need to wait for a trial. Very few, if any, people have said GZ's innocent. Some have said that so far the evidence seems to support his side, but it seems like one side is jumping to judgement while the other is saying we need to wait. The side jumping to judgement is then calling racism.
Unless he was just watching and reporting to the police and was headed back to his vehicle to wait for the police and was jumped by Martin. If that's the case, then GZ is innocent. I think that's his story, but right now, who knows? Most of the posts on here are either people who say GZ's guilty and needs to be punished and people who say we need to wait for a trial. Very few, if any, people have said GZ's innocent. Some have said that so far the evidence seems to support his side, but it seems like one side is jumping to judgement while the other is saying we need to wait. The side jumping to judgement is then calling racism.
You must not be reading the same posts I am. Heck, I have proclaimed Zimmerman innocent.
6% of homicides are committed by people under 18
11% of homicides are committed by people 17-19. As the propensity to commit homicide seems to go up with age through age 24, one can safely assume that 18-19 year olds commit more homicides than 17 year olds.
People 20-24 commit 50% more homicides than people 17-19. People 25-29 commit approximately the same number of homicides as 17-19 year olds.
Actually, people 20-24 as well as people 25-29 commit less murders than the 17-19 age group.
Unless he was just watching and reporting to the police and was headed back to his vehicle to wait for the police and was jumped by Martin. If that's the case, then GZ is innocent. I think that's his story, but right now, who knows? Most of the posts on here are either people who say GZ's guilty and needs to be punished and people who say we need to wait for a trial. Very few, if any, people have said GZ's innocent. Some have said that so far the evidence seems to support his side, but it seems like one side is jumping to judgement while the other is saying we need to wait. The side jumping to judgement is then calling racism.
I believe he is innocent of murder and guilty of stupidity. However, the two don't go hand in hand.
Its going to boil down to what he felt in his mind at the time of the incident. Whether or not he started the fight is irrelevant. You don't lose the right to self defense, just because you started the fight. Everyone keeps focusing on the fact he got out of his car and followed Martin. Ok. He did. And? Yes it would not have occurred, maybe, if he had not done that. No disagreements here.
Except, what he did is not illegal and not wrong. It happens with people all across the country, every single day. The issue is this: Did he feel he was in immediate (some imminent) fear of death and/or great bodily harm, at the TIME he pulled the trigger. NO ONE can get into his mind and say otherwise, other then him.
There is a HUGE amount of case law on this already. And, just by going on the photographs and his statement, he will walk out of that court room.
The one thing I have been harping on in this forum, since I joined, is the fact criminal law and emotions do not mix. Emotionally, Zimmerman is a cold blooded killer. The FACTS and purely looking at it from a criminal justice standpoint: His act was self defense.
ALL killings are murder, until proved otherwise. So yes, Zimmerman is a murderer. So am I. I've killed several people under the color of authority and it is no different. I committed murder, until the investigation proved it was justifiable.
The prosecution of Zimmerman is purely a political one. Corey was given marching orders. Either specific or vague, to charge Zimmerman, by the Governor of Florida. The original district attorney did not find sufficient evidence to charge Zimmerman. NO NEW evidence, statements and/or physical, have come forward which the original district attorney did not know.
Yet Corey charged him. Why? No reason except for plain and simple politics. She charged Zimmerman, knowing he would walk out of that courtroom. Yet, she can and will claim, "I did what I thought was right."
Zimmerman was stupid for getting out of the car and following Martin. However, he is not guilty of murder or even manslaughter. If stupidity was a crime, most of the United States would be behind bars.
I don't think he was stupid to get out of his car and follow him. As long as he kept a very good distance, he was doing what a good citizen would do. I do think he stupidly got too close. I have followed people who ran out of a store being chased by employees because they were stealing. I then drove back to the store and told them where the people were. If they went into an apartment complex, I have discretely tried to see what apartment they lived in. I have followed a vehicle who hit another and took off until I could write down the license plate and drive back to give to the police. I have never had a confrontation. I don't think anything GZ did was wrong, but how he did it may have led to a confrontation, initiated either by GZ or TM. I agree with most of the post from Phil. In my earlier post I did say "Most."
Good god! GZ shot TM because he feared for his life. Kid has a record of drug abuse, defacing property, possession of (probably stolen) jewelry he could not account for and a burglary tool. All this at age 17.
Ten years ago or more GZ drang too much, got in the way of some officer who had not identified himself and had to go to court over that. There was a tit for tat with an ex with both filing restraining orders.
Since ten years ago, GZ was mentoring black children, had tried to lead a charge with black churches to hels some other black person at the hands of the police. He was a community organizer and a big Demcrat.
If Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, some parents, racial groups and the President didn't make this a big news event and race issue these charges would have never been filed.
This was a straight forward self defense case.
TM had no record at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowne
Actually, people 20-24 as well as people 25-29 commit less murders than the 17-19 age group.
As a group, they do, too. I stand by my math.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 05-20-2012 at 09:08 PM..
Reason: Trayvon is no longer alive
I am troubled from these discussions that it appears to me that the black community has become so desensitized by black on black crime that it believes that it does not have the right to protect its community from drug crazed predictors thugs and thrives. That is truly a sad state of existence. Communities have the right to defend themselves and to stand guardin their own communities toprotectteiron. We will not surrender to bullying and aggression.
Good god! GZ shot TM because he feared for his life. Kid has a record of drug abuse, defacing property, possession of (probably stolen) jewelry he could not account for and a burglary tool. All this at age 17.
And GZ knew all of this when the incident occurred.
Has anybody ever stopped to think that maybe this is just a case of two messed up idiots that couldn't help but collide with each other? Normal people would have avoided tragedy but these two couldn't.
They experienced what's known as an "African-American moment."
I am troubled from these discussions that it appears to me that the black community has become so desensitized by black on black crime that it believes that it does not have the right to protect its community from drug crazed predictors thugs and thrives. That is truly a sad state of existence. Communities have the right to defend themselves and to stand guardin their own communities toprotectteiron. We will not surrender to bullying and aggression.
Pardon me, but what are:
"drug crazed predictors thugs and thrives."
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