Trayvon Martin Case Updates: 2 Judges Recuse, "graphic pictures" of Zimmerman's Injuries, Bond set at $150K (interview, attorneys)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Your entire conclusion that Zimmerman has lied is based on the fact that he is being charged with 2nd degree murder. Sorry, but that is not evidence of what you claim.
I have NOT concluded that Zimmerman is lying. Let me repeat. The State of Florida believes that Zimmerman is lying, therefore charges have been filed. Now it's up to the State to prove that allegation. And Zimmerman has responded by filing an affirmative defense (self defense) and has put the state on notice that it intends to present evidence showing why the killing was justified. There are facts in dispute in this case.
What I've been saying over and over and over again, is that we don't know all the evidence the state has at this point. BUT the State "believes" Zimmerman is lying about self defense; otherwise, no charges would have been filed. That's the way it works.
I have NOT concluded that Zimmerman is lying. Let me repeat. The State of Florida believes that Zimmerman is lying, therefore charges have been filed. Now it's up to the State to prove that allegation. And Zimmerman has responded by filing an affirmative defense (self defense) and has put the state on notice that it intends to present evidence showing why the killing was justified. There are facts in dispute in this case.
What I've been saying over and over and over again, is that we don't know all the evidence the state has at this point. BUT the State "believes" Zimmerman is lying about self defense; otherwise, no charges would have been filed. That's the way it works.
You should be clear that the above is your position if you are going to vigorously defend someone who says
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy
He's just lying about the circumstances around killing him.
withut any qualification - and as a matter of "fact".
If you read the post I was responding to then you should be able to see the bias from the context. Why Zimmerman killed Trayvon is what is in dispute. To say that "he called 911, he also killed Trayvon" is an indictment. It is clear that the poster was insinuating that Zimmerman was unjustified in killing Martin. I don't know whether he was justified or not and at this point, I don't care. The jury will determine that. I am concerned about the media skewing the public's opinion in one direction by posting the picture of a 12 year old boy.
That picture of a 12 year old is OLD NEWS. Updated photos have been published everywhere. When the story started gaining attention, it moved fast. As I said, I don't think "the media" really cares; it just wants to get stories out fast.
I think the outrage came from the idea that a 17 yr. old, who was unarmed, and a guest on the property was shot and killed when there was no evidence of the teenager being involved in any wrong-doing on the property. That kind of thing just causes a "gut reaction."
Personally, I hope, at the very least, this incident will push citizens of Florida to reconsider the very, very broad SYG law in the state. I've heard so many attorneys say that the law is really just a license to kill.
You should be clear that the above is your position if you are going to vigorously defend someone who says
withut any qualification - and as a matter of "fact".
You conveniently posted only part of the quote by calipoppy. Here's the entire quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy
The fact that he actually killed Trayvon Martin is not in dispute. He admitted that he killed him. He's just lying about the circumstances around killing him. And THAT is what will be decided in a court of law.
Yet you replied to only one little excerpt, taking that out of context.("He's just lying about the circumstances aroung killing him") She is also saying that the circumstances of the killing is what will be decided in court. Yet you respond as if she is simply asserting that she knows he's lying. Maybe that is her opinion. But your response to only that one sentence gives the wrong impression, not to mention a bit snarky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier
How do you know this? Because if you do, you know more then the Sanford Police Department, the Seminole County District Attorney, Zimmerman's attorney, or any random person in America. You had better be contacting the appropriate people, pronto.
Your answer implies that the "authorities" (except for THE State Attorney who filed charges) don't think Zimmerman is lying; and, why would they since they did a very poor investigation?
Anyway, bottom line is that the State of Florida has taken the position that Zimmerman is lying, which has resulted in the state filing charges of 2nd degree murder against Zimmerman. So SOMEBODY is taking a stand on that issue. So calipoppy must agree with the state's position, therefore, no need to notify authorities of anything. They indicate they have it under control.
Zimmerman's then girlfriend Veronica Zuazo claimed that three years earlier, Zimmerman had attacked her when they were driving to counseling. She claimed she popped her gum in his face, spurring him to call her names and smacking her mouth with his open hand.
In January 2002, she also claimed, Zimmerman got upset because she got home too late. They tussled. He threw her on the bed. She smacked him. Zimmerman left for the night.
As far as domestic violence goes, that does kind of mild. Now, I wasn't there for them and it is quite possibly worse than it sounds, but it's doesn't exactly sound like he was beating her to a bloody pulp.
I see. Well, I don't pay much attention to rumors or stories we read about in blogs, but these statements were in the discovery material. Still, I was surprised that a former co-worker was interviewed. I wonder if that means other incidents, like the high speed chase he was involved in, can be used to show aggression.
Someone on this forum once accused me of "hating" George Zimmerman, which just isn't true. I don't hate anyone and I even feel sorry for the man because of all the attention this story is getting. However, no matter what happened, justice needs to be served. We all know that many of the people who are shouting "it's self-defense" would want Trayvon Martin to get the Death Penalty for killing the nice Neighborhood Watch guy, right? If all the evidence points to Zimmerman's innocence, then everyone should accept the verdict and move on, but there are too many conflicting stories to assume anything at this point.
I do agree, right.
Also, I don't hate Zimmerman either. I just find it annoying that people make such snap decisions about these things, knowing very little of the evidence and facts. On the one hand they moan about how the "MSM' is so biased, while on the other hand they are taking everything they read on internet or see on TV as the complete and absolute truth, when the reporters who are reporting such "evidence" work for the MSM.
I think the State can call witnesses from Zimmerman's life for the purpose of determining his credibility. Remember, the defense can also call witnesses to counter some of the things these state witnesses are saying. Like, the defense can interview other co-workers who worked with Zimmerman at the same time as the one who said he was a bully to find out if those other workers disagree. I think, because Zimmerman has money for his defense, that O'Mara will depose a LOT of people after he has seen who the State has questioned and what they said so he won't go to trial or hearing and get blindsided.
There were some very good points made by those attorneys in that link you posted.
I feel bad for Zimmerman too. But mostly I'm appalled by the SYG law. IMO, if we didn't have such a law in Florida, people wouldn't be so eager to shoot first and ask questions later. I think if there were only the self defense law, Zimmerman may have made a much stronger effort to get away. Apparently, based on comments in these threads, it appears that when taking training for a concealed weapon permit, people get training and info on the SYG laws. Unfortunately, in this case, Zimmerman knew he had the power within that gun. I think it's a pitiful case for everyone involved.
I read this statement and could only think - "Wow".
Do you honestly think that someone who kills another human being even with justification has no remorse over what they have done? Unless you are a sociopath and have no conscience, the knowledge that you took a life is going to tear you up. Using Zimmerman's apology against him as some rationale that he wasn't acting in self-defense is the sign of either a very cold heart or manipulative mind. Please tell me that I am wrong - and that you were only joking(very weakly) when you wrote these words.
There is nothing that would cause Calipoppy to change his mind.
If Zimmerman had calmly and confidently stated that that he acted in self-defense and stated that he had no remorse over his actions; Calipoppy would be talking about how cold it is to say that in front of Martin's family and that even if he did act in self-defense (even though he completely did not) that the emotional harm he caused them is a sign of a cold-heart psychopath.
As far as domestic violence goes, that does kind of mild. Now, I wasn't there for them and it is quite possibly worse than it sounds, but it's doesn't exactly sound like he was beating her to a bloody pulp.
Well, Zimmerman was not beaten to a "bloody pulp" either. He was beaten.
Police officers do the same thing. Aren't police officers portrayed as people from the community who try to keep the community "safe"? Isn't that what neighborhood watch groups are supposed to do. And isn't that what George Zimmerman was doing?
Excuse me sir, but I'm not sure if you have been following the details of the story.
ZIMMERMAN WAS NOT A POLICE OFFICER and ignored the 911 dispatcher's request to NOT follow the unarmed, 17 year old boy that was walking home in the rain with a bottle of iced tea and a bag of Skittles. Please note: he was wearing the hoodie (which made him look 'suspicious' BECAUSE IT WAS RAINING. Although Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious because he was black.
What political opportunity is there for Corey in this? Her job is to prosecute and get convictions. Since you think this is such a slam-dunk, why do you think an acquittal is going to help her?
No, Corey's job is to pursue justice, not convict innocent individuals. Yes, there will be a not guilty verdict based on reasonable doubt. The evidence in this case shows that Zimmerman is not just "not guilty" but innocent. Zimmermen was attacked, he defended himself. Now Zimmermen is being attacked again by the state of Florida. Gotta keep them voters happy.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
