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Of course not, debating here is a fun hobby. I am simply correcting the record on welfare since I've seen too many other incorrect points left unanswered where men who are for opt-out were lumped together.
You're not "correcting" anything. You are proffering an opinion.
Maybe I'm not explaining my point well enough. I'm looking for equality within a legal framework, not illegal.
Post conception:
1. Woman who doesn't want to raise a child:
-Can avoid parenthood by obtain an abortion legally.
-Can avoid parenthood by dropping the baby off legally at a safe haven, no questions asked.
2. Man who doesn't want to raise a child:
-Has no legal way of avoiding parenthood. If he doesn't pay, he will be garnished or sent to jail.
I am debating equality of legal options, not options that could land a man in jail. There is already equality in illegal choices post-conception, no one is disputing that.
So every dead-beat dad is garnished or goes to jail? In what universe? Most of these losers can't even hold a job, and probably intentionally.
You want to speak to legality and some of us want to speak to reality. The REALITY is why the laws tend to favor the mothers. Wake up.
You're not "correcting" anything. You are proffering an opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Bill
You know, it's ironic, these men who want to shirk their responsibilities and then have women end up on welfare to support the kids that they helped create. Are they pro-welfare? Probably not, so the irony is particularly glaring.
You made the above assumption that lumped together people with whom you disagree. I posted my proposal that shows your assumption wasn't uniform. That IS correcting the record.
What's your solution to take care of the baby? Just let the baby die in the cold? A woman might choose to have a baby but what if she didn't choose to be a single parent?
I actually touched on that just recently. If the man opts out at any point at which the woman can still get an abortion, then yes, she's choosing to be a single parent if she chooses to have the baby. If the man opts out at any point afterwards (but before the baby is born), she is entitled to some temporary form of child support. Not enough to carry them until the child is 18 years old, because he loses his responsibilites as he loses his rights as a parent (just as a woman who gets an abortion would). Enough to ensure the baby's taken care of until other arrangements are made. And yes, I mean the great devil, welfare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky
Thank you for mentioning this.A lot of men disappear once they find out about the baby. The man has a choice to be absent. He has a lot of choices. Many men do duck out on their girlfriends or wives if she has a baby he didn’t want.
Yes, but you don't distinguish between a man who leaves once the woman finds out she's pregnant and tells the man and a man who leaves just as the baby's being born?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky
If Mom opts out, there is no baby that needs to be raised and supported financially.
If Dad opts out, there is still a baby that needs to be raised and supported financially.
Exactly, but because the mom CHOSE to carry it to full-term. Is anyone else here getting dizzy from all the circles we're going around in?
So every dead-beat dad is garnished or goes to jail? In what universe? Most of these losers can't even hold a job, and probably intentionally.
As I've said in previous threads, I have no sympathy for "deadbeat dads". If some guy told a woman he would be there for her and the baby and then bolted, he SHOULD pay child support or go to jail.
My solution is only for those men who want to opt-out during the time a woman can still obtain an abortion. It is also for those who want to remain a law-abiding citizen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Bill
You want to speak to legality and some of us want to speak to reality. The REALITY is why the laws tend to favor the mothers. Wake up.
Please elaborate on this reality you speak of. Some used the "reality" argument in the past for keeping women and minorities at a legal disadvantage.
I understand your argument, but I do not agree with it. Equality does not mean equal treatment all of the time. Being fair is doing what is best for both parties. Different issues or problems affect groups of people differently. Women and men bodies are not the same, especially our reproductive organs. Child birth affects a women’s life, so women get to make the decision to abort or keep the child. If a man does not want a child your options are to reframe from sex, vasectomy, or condom. Men have options; they just need to utilize them. Just my opinion, the parent that just paying child support has an easier job than the parent that is providing and meeting all of the child’s other needs.
A family can prevent a woman from having an abortion by holding financial and emotional support over her head. Parents can kick their child out for example. A community can disfellowship a member whose whole life was centered around that community. There are ways to essentially blackmail someone into doing something that doesn’t have any sort of legal record.
people move out of their homes, and away from their communities, every day. these are excuses as to why it is difficult, not obstacles as to why it cannot be done.
I understand your argument, but I do not agree with it. Equality does not mean equal treatment all of the time. Being fair is doing what is best for both parties. Different issues or problems affect groups of people differently. Women and men bodies are not the same, especially our reproductive organs. Child birth affects a women’s life, so women get to make the decision to abort or keep the child. If a man does not want a child your options are to reframe from sex, vasectomy, or condom. Men have options; they just need to utilize them. Just my opinion, the parent that just paying child support has an easier job than the parent that is providing and meeting all of the child’s other needs.
my view is that some people ought not be parents in the first place. rights to make the full decision ought to include full responsibility of the consequences.
As I've said in previous threads, I have no sympathy for "deadbeat dads". If some guy told a woman he would be there for her and the baby and then bolted, he SHOULD pay child support or go to jail.
My solution is only for those men who want to opt-out during the time a woman can still obtain an abortion. It is also for those who want to remain a law-abiding citizen.
Same here. The argument remains: If a woman can opt out of parenthood at a given point, the man should have that option too.
Same here. The argument remains: If a woman can opt out of parenthood at a given point, the man should have that option too.
right, it's basically like saying that by law, women can have sex free of child risk, and men cannot.
anyway, whatever we're doing now sure ain't working -- there are more single moms than ever. it is disgusting.
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