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Which confederate flag are you talking about? One of the actual 4 or 5 confederate flags, or the one everyone calls the confederate flag, which is actually the Northern Virginia battle flag. ?
I think it's funny that both northerners, and southerners are so ignorant about history that they don't know anything at all about the Northern Virginia Battle Flag ..
Last edited by bigskydude; 04-09-2011 at 09:11 PM..
I think of the Saint Andrews cross or Saint Patrick's cross.. Most of the south has a sizable amount of Scotch-Irish ancestry and these symbols are really what the confederate flag is modeled after anyways. This main symbol has been used all over Europe for a long time.
But the very original flag was modeled after the English flag, with the upright cross of St. George. After all, true Southern culture was but an echo of southern English landed gentry of the 1600's.
However, jewish southerners objected to the Christian cross on any flag that they would follow and some christian southerners objected to a symbol of Christ being used as a battle icon. So the designer twisted it 45 degrees.
And don't put too much stock in "Scotch Irish" nonsense - in truth, what is termed 'Scots-Irish' in this country is neither Scottish nor Irish. They are best described as Englishmen who fled north from William the Conqueror in 1044 and re-established themselves as farmers, petty land barons and land pirates up near the border with Scotland. Those 'Scots-Irish' who didn't emigrate to the North American continent are most closely related in blood and culture to Ian Paisley and the Ulster Unionists.
haha....I have been living in the south for years now, and I still don't understand what it means
It means "I'm not real smart. I like guns. I don't like having a Nig...um, colored person as a president. I'm overweight. I love Walmart. I made it all the way to 8th grade. Deep fried anything is always for supper. I don't trust uppity smart people with education. Upholstered furniture on the front porch is cool. Mike Huckabee is brilliant. All I got was 2 years probation! I don't see any reason to travel outside of the US because all I could ever want is here in Lizard Holler, Alabama. USA #1! USA #1! USA #1! Let's get fancy and go to The Olive Garden. Jesus is my co-pilot. I'm saving up for a double-wide. I trust FOX News. Flip-Flops are always appropriate footwear.........etc."
I'm a southerner (born and bred) and I know what I'm talking about.
Due to their fear, the south seceeded, then eventually lost a war and romanticized their pre-war lifestyle, leading to an adoration in some of their descendents regarding the stars and bars, which like a PP noted was not actually the flag of the Confederacy.
I am not disagreeing, but the "stars and bars" is this:
Not the elongated battle flag most people are familiar with.
But the very original flag was modeled after the English flag, with the upright cross of St. George. After all, true Southern culture was but an echo of southern English landed gentry of the 1600's.
However, jewish southerners objected to the Christian cross on any flag that they would follow and some christian southerners objected to a symbol of Christ being used as a battle icon. So the designer twisted it 45 degrees
Or you have the British Union Jack which has all 3 crosses of the saints. But yeah that's what southern culture boils down to even our beloved biscuits and gravy came from England prior to making it to America. And the foxhunts ect ect ect.
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Originally Posted by djmilf
And don't put too much stock in "Scotch Irish" nonsense - in truth, what is termed 'Scots-Irish' in this country is neither Scottish nor Irish. They are best described as Englishmen who fled north from William the Conqueror in 1044 and re-established themselves as farmers, petty land barons and land pirates up near the border with Scotland. Those 'Scots-Irish' who didn't emigrate to the North American continent are most closely related in blood and culture to Ian Paisley and the Ulster Unionists.
I didn't want to get deep into it but yup that sums it up.
"We are going to seize your slaves, not pay you for them, and there isn't a darned thing you can do about it, except leave the union". Secession was legal mind you, so said the chief justice of the supreme court at the time.
Astonishing that the Fedral Government managed to say that even before Lincoln was sworn in.
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No one is advocating that slavery was right to do. But the federal government, the same one Lincoln said he wanted to protect said that slavery, buying, selling, trading humans for the purpose of making them work for you with no chance of freedom was legal.
And the practice was still protected - by the Constitution, even - when Secession took place. It took an amendment, remember?
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But they did fight for the south, they fought against a federal government that suddenly decided to take everything the south had with no intention to do it the right way.
Nudge my memory - what abolitionist laws were passed before Secession?
And incidentally, the South had ZERO intention of abolishing slavery. It was the cornerstone of their new Federation, remember?
And should we be proud as we fly the American flag? or should we associate the Murders, forced marching and imprisonment of the Native Indians with our beloved flag?
There has been good and bad done under the Stars and Stripes. It has a few hundred years of history, and the nation has mostly been a force for good. That flag flew over Omaha and Utah beach, as well as over the slave ships.
Why people want to commemorate centuries of "Southern History" by using the flag that was only used for half a decade when they tried (and failed) to cling to an outdated, dying and frankly, immoral economic model - that's anybody's guess.
Last edited by Dane_in_LA; 04-09-2011 at 10:18 PM..
How does the Civil War happen if slavery never was established in North America?
Now, many people these days seem to oversimplify history, particularly the War Between the States and oversimplify it to slavery and just only slavery.
Now, just like every other war in history no war was ever caused by a single solitary issue, wars naturally have it's roots set hundreds (even thousands) of years beforehand.
The origins of the American Civil War started well before 1700, while true, slavery did play a huge role, it could be said that because the North and South developed differently says enough.
For instance, Slavery wasn't profitable in the North (though a fair shake of families in places like Massechusetts made bank on it) the environment (seasonal wise) didn't permit slavery. The North became Industrial and Urban, the South became much more rural and traditionalist.
Even to a point where you could boil it down to two factions at the Constitutional Convention, where the Jeffersonians (Southerners) and Hamiltonians (Northerners) had their differences in things like Anti-Federalism and Federalism. Now to make my point, the Civil War was the convergence of several large issues which had been festering for at least 2 Centuries, things like State's Rights, Slavery, Federalism/Anti-Federalism, Urban vs. Rural, and by full encompassing Socio-Political issues....North vs. South.
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