School held prayer services before tests (activist, rating, Chicago, state government)

[twinArmageddons]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

There is no law stating such thing.

As I've already said.

However, law or no, it's been ruled in every court case since the Supreme Court precedent that it cannot happen in public schools.

Take it up with the courts if you wish, but you'll lose.

[twinArmageddons]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

So the states that had official religions at the time of the signing of the Constitution were in violation?

You apparently missed the post where he already addressed that.

[Strel]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

yes. It is. If you're going to make the claim that it is illegal, back up the claim. Otherwise, please pipe down.

Engel v. Vitale, 370 U.S. 421 (1962). You pipe down.

That isn't a law, nor is it in the Constitution.

Wrong.

See above.

[Calvinist]

Originally Posted by Phantasy Tokoro

You apparently missed the post where he already addressed that.

apparently I did. Please point me at it.

What changed in the Constitution between the point where most of the states had official state religions and now, where it's illegal for a local school to pray?

[twinArmageddons]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

apparently I did. Please point me at it.

What changed in the Constitution between the point where most of the states had official state religions and now, where it's illegal for a local school to pray?

Originally Posted by bc42gb43

You are right that in the early days of the Republic states could violate portions of the Bill of Rights with impunity. The Supreme Court often interpreted the Bill of Rights and other constitutional provisions as applying only to the federal government, and not to the states. See Barron v. Baltimore, 32 U.S. (7 Pet.) 243 (1833).

However, the Fourteenth Amendment changed this pattern. Beginning in the 1880s and 1890s, the Supreme Court began to incorporate the Bill of Rights to the states, holding that the Fourteenth Amendment requires that rights under the Constitution and Bill of Rights also apply to state and local governments. This is why you could have a state-sanctioned government in 1800, but not in 1900. At this point almost the entirety of the Bill of Rights has been incorporated as being obligatory on state and local governments as well.

Here you are.

[Strel]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

So the SCOTUS is wrong. They have not interpreted it correctly.

Says you. But your opinion is irrelevant. The SCOTUS has the final word.

Considering many of the original states had official religions, they would have been illegal at the time of the signing...which we knew wasn't the case. Of course, that doesn't sway a liberal's mind if it's made up...but oh well.

Oh this is a political issue? I had always thought the 14th amendment took care of this little detail.

FAIL AGAIN!

In any event, WHAT LAW WAS BROKEN BY THIS BEING DONE? Please give me actual quotation from a law, or the constitution.

The First and possibly the 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States.

You're getting closer...except you haven't told me what religion was actually established as a result of this.

It doesn't have to be a specific religion.

All of your arguments are straw men.

[jojajn]

Some public schools and universities are granting Muslim requests for prayer times, prayer rooms and ritual foot baths, prompting a debate on whether Islam is being given preferential treatment over other religions.

Some say schools giving Muslims special treatment - USATODAY.com

[bc42gb43]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

apparently I did. Please point me at it.

What changed in the Constitution between the point where most of the states had official state religions and now, where it's illegal for a local school to pray?

From post #65:

You are right that in the early days of the Republic states could violate portions of the Bill of Rights with impunity. The Supreme Court often interpreted the Bill of Rights and other constitutional provisions as applying only to the federal government, and not to the states. See Barron v. Baltimore, 32 U.S. (7 Pet.) 243 (1833).

However, the Fourteenth Amendment changed this pattern. Beginning in the 1880s and 1890s, the Supreme Court began to incorporate the Bill of Rights to the states, holding that the Fourteenth Amendment requires that rights under the Constitution and Bill of Rights also apply to state and local governments. This is why you could have a state-sanctioned government in 1800, but not in 1900. At this point almost the entirety of the Bill of Rights has been incorporated as being obligatory on state and local governments as well.

[Calvinist]

Originally Posted by Phantasy Tokoro

Here you are.

So....in your opinion, would the SCOTUS have ruled against those states that had official state religions, as being unconstitutional?

[gallowsCalibrator]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

apparently I did. Please point me at it.

Not every law has to be spelt out in black and white. Please see Engel v. Vitale and Abington School District v. Schempp for the Supreme Court decision on authority-led prayer in school.

Originally Posted by Calvinist

What changed in the Constitution between the point where most of the states had official state religions and now?

It's all in how the Supreme Court (circa 1962) interpreted the law.

Originally Posted by Calvinist

where it's illegal for a local school to pray?

It's only unconstitutional ("illegal") for an authority-figure in a local school to lead prayer. If it's the students doing it of their own accord, it's fine.

At my high school, there was a group of Christian students that, each day, would gather at the flagpole to pray. Because no teacher endorsed, participated, and/or interfered, it still continues to this day.