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The liberal mindset though would suggest that everyone has a right to affordable heat and cooling regardless of their thermostat setting or the condition of their home and furnace, wouldn't it?
I mean...it's not their fault their house is drafty....
I'm not a liberal, you should know that by now
Most of the utility companies when I was up north had a moratorium on cut offs through the winter months. If it did get to the point where their utilities had to be cut off, they had to make face to face documented contact with the homeowner before that happened.
There are shelters for you if that happens. If you decide to stay and freeze to death, I can't fix stupid.
I mean, I would say "nice try" if it really was a valid analogy, but it's not. I think the more apropos analogy to nationalized healthcare is nationalized transportation networks, such as interstate highways. But I bet the conservatives on this board don't mind taking advantage of that bit of socialism, even though countless people DON'T use the interstate highway system.
Interstates are funded via fuel excise taxes, in that way people who are more likely to use it do in fact pay for it.
Shouldn't everyone have access to free/low cost heating? Shouldn't everyone be able to turn their furnace up to 70...72 degrees in the wintertime regardless of heating costs?
Shouldn't everyone be able to set their AC to 68 in the summer regardless of their costs?
Should it matter how big/small our house is? Should it matter how much insulation we have or how good of windows/weatherizing we've done on our houses?
Personal responsibility should be irrelevant! There are people dying from lack of heat and cooling!
These type posts always frustrate me... People do not die because they are denied utility services! I have never seen a house built that didb't have a meter in it. ( unless it was AMISH owned) In cold climes Utilities are forbidden by law to shut off power during the Winter months. The stack of 'failure to pay' power bill grows every month during the winter. I see it every day.
I do not think the majority of people have any idea how the utility industry works in the US. While the few IO's serve 71% of the population most utilities are already owned by the some form of Govermental agency.
Take a few minutes and read the link for a better understanding of how it works. Electric Power Industry--TOC
"State public service commissions have jurisdiction primarily over the large, vertically integrated, investor-owned electric utilities that own more than 38 percent of the Nation's generating capacity and serve about 71 percent of ultimate consumers. There are 210 investor-owned electric utilities, 2,009 publicly-owned electric utilities, 883 consumer-owned rural electric cooperatives, and 9 Federal electric utilities. A small amount of electricity is sold by generating facilities directly to end use customers. At least 6 States regulate cooperatives, and at least 7 States regulate municipal electric utilities; many State legislatures, however, defer this control to local municipal officials or cooperative members,"
And if your 'friend' had gone to the doctor when necessary and taken care of the aches, pains, tooth issues etc. when they were little problems they probably would have cost a lot less over the course of his life. Instead, he waited and now it costs MORE.
See how that works?
In some cases, yes, as above when the guy had problems and did not address them.
But let's not forget, that overall, preventive care increases costs. I know my PCP wants me to spend ridiculous amounts of time (and health care costs) getting tons of tests every year, just to "keep the records current," even though I'm having any problems and not at risk for anything. I know it is extremely lucrative, incredibly easy, and doctors love scheduling appointments months in advance. But I'd much rather I have a doctor that has time fit me in when I have an minor but acute problem--their schedules are so packed with meaningless "checkups," that acute problems can't be addressed without "squeezing you in" 2 weeks later. You eventually go to the appointment and the Dr. says "I should have seen you immediately!"
As the director of the Congressional Budget Office said: "The evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall...To avert one case of acute illness, it is usually necessary to provide preventive care to many patients, most of whom would not have suffered that illness anyway. ... Researchers who have examined the effects of preventive care generally find that the added costs of widespread use of preventive services tend to exceed the savings from averted illness."" Congressional Budget Expert Says Preventive Care Will Raise -- Not Cut -- Costs - Political Punch
Between Obamacare and the aging of the Baby Boom, we simply won't have enough primary care doctors to provide all this preventive care in addition to acute care. The situation is bad enough now, but it will get much worse.
It is always good to see the handful of you socialists posting here. Of course national utility plan, like national health care does not usually work, especially in a country the size of USA>
We live in a country which believes in fairness, those who work for what they get, get more than those who do not.
For those who honestly can not afford heating and cooling there are places that will help them, just like those who can not afford medical care still can get it, as well as reduced perscriptions or free meds.
So for the few of you here who think the country owes everybody the same benefits, I can suggest a few countries you might be happier living in.
Shouldn't everyone have access to free/low cost heating? Shouldn't everyone be able to turn their furnace up to 70...72 degrees in the wintertime regardless of heating costs?
Shouldn't everyone be able to set their AC to 68 in the summer regardless of their costs?
Should it matter how big/small our house is? Should it matter how much insulation we have or how good of windows/weatherizing we've done on our houses?
Personal responsibility should be irrelevant! There are people dying from lack of heat and cooling!
Yep, because I want to subsidize heating Al Gore's hot tub!
These type posts always frustrate me... People do not die because they are denied utility services! I have never seen a house built that didb't have a meter in it. ( unless it was AMISH owned) In cold climes Utilities are forbidden by law to shut off power during the Winter months. The stack of 'failure to pay' power bill grows every month during the winter. I see it every day.
I do not think the majority of people have any idea how the utility industry works in the US. While the few IO's serve 71% of the population most utilities are already owned by the some form of Govermental agency.
Take a few minutes and read the link for a better understanding of how it works. Electric Power Industry--TOC
"State public service commissions have jurisdiction primarily over the large, vertically integrated, investor-owned electric utilities that own more than 38 percent of the Nation's generating capacity and serve about 71 percent of ultimate consumers. There are 210 investor-owned electric utilities, 2,009 publicly-owned electric utilities, 883 consumer-owned rural electric cooperatives, and 9 Federal electric utilities. A small amount of electricity is sold by generating facilities directly to end use customers. At least 6 States regulate cooperatives, and at least 7 States regulate municipal electric utilities; many State legislatures, however, defer this control to local municipal officials or cooperative members,"
State utility co-ops and municiple utilities (water for example) are a different animal that Federally nationalized industries. State and municiple utilities are not a violation of the US Constitution.
It is always good to see the handful of you socialists posting here. Of course national utility plan, like national health care does not usually work, especially in a country the size of USA>
We live in a country which believes in fairness, those who work for what they get, get more than those who do not.
For those who honestly can not afford heating and cooling there are places that will help them, just like those who can not afford medical care still can get it, as well as reduced perscriptions or free meds.
So for the few of you here who think the country owes everybody the same benefits, I can suggest a few countries you might be happier living in.
Nita
"Moscow operates a 60-year-old all-in-one system that uses hot water for steam-heating radiators and for the bath."
"It's the hot and sticky season in this city of about 12 million people, and with many Muscovites going without hot water these days, you can put the emphasis on sticky. It is a rite of summer peculiar to the Russian capital: For three weeks, staggered in blocks between May and September, officials shut off hot water to various neighborhoods to clean and repair Moscow's centrally planned central heating system. Some residents respond by hauling out the 10-gallon pot, setting the morning alarm a half-hour early and boiling themselves a nice, hot bath. Others flock to the city's private bathhouses or impose on friends and relatives. Then there's that subset who would rather just let hygiene slide."
You don't think the amount of healthcare a person needs/wants is based on personal choices and desire? Really?
I personally know someone that worked hard his whole life, accepted aches and pains, never saw a dentist, and had bad eyes. As soon as he got on Medicare he went to the doc, got an expensive ankle brace, got his teeth fixed, and now goes every time he gets the sniffles.
You conservatives ever actually STUDY the healthcare debate? Or is too much time wasted being scared about the "red menace" still like it's 1950?
One of the reasons why we do have greater than average health care expenditures per person is because we have millions who forego going to the doctor until a simple problem that could be treated in the development phase goes ignored because of lack of insurance, inability to pay co-pay, caps on benefits, etc. So what could have been a lump detected and removed for $ dollars in its early stages progresses until it costs $ x $.
Under a plan where everyone has insurance, people should be ENCOURAGED to go to the doctor regularly. Under the private system, money isn't made in "prevention," however, and thus the problem.
Your friend didn't go to the doctor because he probably couldn't afford it, or had substandard insurance. Obviously, accessibility was an issue, since he went once it was "free" to him. And good, because who knows what problems will be found earlier, when its cheaper to treat, then later, when it can cost millions upon millions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinist
Actually, public infrastructure is what government is for. The interstate system benefits interstate commerce.
Yeah, because a healthy populace doesn't benefit commerce or national security.
Because its not like Canada, Japan, and Germany don't have a competitive edge in manufacturing over the USA because national healthcare erases billions off the bottom lines of corporations, right?
Because its much better to have private citizens sink their life savings into a health crisis, lose their home, and ultimately end up on the dole because of one catastrophic illness.
Because there's no benefit to the citizenry to be able to go to bed at night knowing that you will never be denied treatment you need because some pencil pusher seeking to boost profits deems treatment your doctor recommends as "unnecessary" or "uncovered."
I wish every "tea party" old fogie would practice what they preach and refuse medicare or medicaid in their old age. Set an example as to why government run health is undesirable. Every veteran who is scared of the "red menace" should also refuse VA hospital treatment.
Interstates are funded via fuel excise taxes, in that way people who are more likely to use it do in fact pay for it.
Not necessarily at all. If I wanted I could go a month or more without getting on the highway, and "city driving" consumes more gas than highway driving.
Why not a transponder system, where people who ACTUALLY use the roads pay per mile travelled on the federal highway system? Why do we accept such creeping socialism?
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