Five Pittsburgh neighborhoods with most potential. (York, Washington: best neighborhood, sales, rentals)

[nuwaver88]

Originally Posted by pman

bingo. I said it has potential mainly because there aren't many people living there AND the combination of layout and architecture is pretty awesome. I was thinking it perhaps could be a bit more grownup than the southside but who knows what wil work. As for moving every five years, many people do move that often, especially young. downtown residents don't all have to be homeowners, they could be, gasp (the horrors), renters! As someone who travels a fair amount, I don't get why people would be upset about a visitor not wanting to venture far. sometimes you're just tired, you haven't gotten your bearings, and you just want something close to have a good meal and maybe have a few beers to unwind. LAstly, maybe some of those thousands of yong people leaving pittsburgh would like a vibrant downtown, I'd bet a lot of the places they move to have them. It's not a magic bullet, but generally it's a reflection of a healthy city. In Philly it hasn't saved the city, but it certainly helped. neighborhoods once left for dead are now desirable places to live because they're near downtown. the same thing has happened, on a smaller scale, near their version of Oakland. that was probably rendell's genius (it certainly wasn't clean government). moreover, center city philadelphia is far more effective at attracting suburbanites than any other area was before, except maybe Manayunk (which killed itself as a hotspot with a ten year moratorium on bars and restaurants)

Well, I agree and understand about weary travelers not wanting to stray too far away from the hotel after a day full of connections and flight delays. The problem is, if they do not want to unwind in the hotel bar, there is no East Carson Downtown. They limit their options by not wanting to walk a little because their options are limited. There are a slew of gay bars on Liberty. Everybody may be welcome, but the reality is, I do not feel comfortable sending everybody there. If people want to slip into jeans and t shirt, they may feel awkward at Tonic or Bossa Nova or Olive or Twist. Let's gear our Downtown towards the common folk, the people who like ***** as Folk, and also the well to do folks.

[JacksPgh]

I understand the need for more diverse restaurants and bars downtown. I don't think it's the diversity that's missing just the amount of bars and restaurants. Even with all the places that have opened there, the streets still appear dark and sparsely populated at night. It will come with more residences there. It has come a long way and will continue. There are more bars than just Seviche and Bosa Nova.

I think the "Common Folks" even the "well to do" would have no problem with any of these;
August Henry's City Saloon, Original Oyster House, Mulroneys, Primanti Brothers and many more small bars that are there already. Just across the river, a very walkable distance depending on the hotel, is North Shore Saloon, Finnigan's Wake, Firewater's North Shore Saloon, Calico Jack's.

Most Downtowns do consist of a large amount of more sophisticated destinations as it does cater to professionals or business travelers with expense accounts. Not to mention people out-on-the town before and after seeing shows at the many theaters Downtown. They are looking for someplace special.

Most downtowns also are the location of many gay bars. It's the gays that never minded going Downtown before it was trendy and they have been there for decades.

I would hate to see Carson Street Downtown, tho I would like to see the mass that it has. Carson Street has become a very homogenized location. Last I went out there, I could not tell the difference from one bar to the next. Dozens of them. Every place had giant screens in your face screaming some obscure game. It is not what it used to be.

The fact is the "common people" are not the type that spend a lot of time in downtowns anywhere. The rents are more expensive so the restaurants are too.

Most "common people" feel intimidated on downtown streets, even more developed downtowns. They generally have no problem just going to the restaurant in the lobby. There are, and always will be odd people lurking around, it's a city. What they interpret as large groups of scary people are usually people waiting for the bus, they just don't look exactly like them. The "common people" generally will stay at the Red Roof Inn and not at the expensive downtown hotels. They are not traveling on expense accounts. They are already well represented Downtown, dive bars just do not stand out as much as a Seviche or such.

People who live in downtowns are generally well educated and well traveled. They are young professionals and more sophisticated empty nesters. The "common people" will not be the ones living in these new apartments or condos Downtown.

To propose to cater to them is really off the mark. Downtown should be unique. It should be more sophisticated. It should be where the unusual bars and restaurants are located.

Hell, does this city have a street without a sports bar on the corner?

[pman]

Originally Posted by nuwaver88

Well, I agree and understand about weary travelers not wanting to stray too far away from the hotel after a day full of connections and flight delays. The problem is, if they do not want to unwind in the hotel bar, there is no East Carson Downtown. They limit their options by not wanting to walk a little because their options are limited. There are a slew of gay bars on Liberty. Everybody may be welcome, but the reality is, I do not feel comfortable sending everybody there. If people want to slip into jeans and t shirt, they may feel awkward at Tonic or Bossa Nova or Olive or Twist. Let's gear our Downtown towards the common folk, the people who like ***** as Folk, and also the well to do folks.

Yeah, downtowns seem to do best when there's something for everyone. I agree with Jacks about East Carson. myself, I like to sit at the bar at Six Penn. food is good, beer selection decent. the biggest disappointment is 1902, that place could be run so much better. It's entirely possible that Market Sq will begin to attract people once it's redone...it's a natural location, IMO. the ale house is usually open late but more is needed than moe's.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by greenhomespgh

Fineview. The homes are cheap and the view is great. May be one of the city's best kept secrets.
Carnegie. Great little walkable downtown with my favorite restaurant.

There's some solid housing stock there. I'm sure most of it needs serious updating, but the houses there have some good bones.

[nuwaver88]

I agree about 1902. I went in there a few months back on a Friday and was bored to pieces. There was hardly a person in the place. The people working there were nice enough. I just think they need to re-focus on becoming a pub first. They seem to think they are a restaurant first, but with the name "Tavern" people get the wrong impression. I think they need to find a better balance to get back on the radar. If you want to go in and have a few drinks without eating, you feel odd.

[pman]

Originally Posted by nuwaver88

I agree about 1902. I went in there a few months back on a Friday and was bored to pieces. There was hardly a person in the place. The people working there were nice enough. I just think they need to re-focus on becoming a pub first. They seem to think they are a restaurant first, but with the name "Tavern" people get the wrong impression. I think they need to find a better balance to get back on the radar. If you want to go in and have a few drinks without eating, you feel odd.

is the food any good? If it were my place it would be a nice pub with good pub food (yeah, they call em gastropubs these days), and good beer. probably a couple of beer engines to go along with the restored vibe of the place. and of course, bribe the hotel folks. not only is tavern in their name, it looks like a pub.
maybe change the name back to one of the old names

Originally opened as Dimling Brothers Bar and Restaurant (German cuisine), 1902 Landmark Tavern has gone by many other names including Cheshire Cat and Crazy Quilt. This Market Square landmark in downtown Pittsburgh is best known for its raw bar, vodka bar, and gourmet chops and steaks.

Pittsburgh Restaurants - Downtown Pittsburgh Dining Locations
As it is, Six Penn is one of the better "regular" meals you'll get downtown, IMO.

[robrobrob]

Most if not all of the neighborhoods that have been gentrified were never really that bad. For Example, Lawrenceville and the South Side were never ghettos. Has there been a ghetto that has come back? I can't think of one. Basically, what I am saying I don't think that the residential part of Garfield is going to come around anytime soon. I don't remember what the War Streets were like in the 70's or 80's when they "started" to come back. I just think that housing is not that expensive in Pittsburgh for trend setting people to start buying up cheap houses in ghettos to renovate. What do you think?

[greg42]

Originally Posted by Drover

Interesting premise, but with modern workforce mobility, the idea of living within walking distance of your workplace will likely end up a fool's errand. I suppose you could do it, but chances are it will require you to move every 5 years. I suspect most people would rather settle in somewhere and tolerate a manageable commute.

Eh, maybe, but with downtown such a center of certain employment, even switching jobs doesn't necessarily mean losing the walking distance. Now, if you mean moving out of the entire area, well, no, that wouldn't matter either, as it wouldn't matter where you had decided to live in that case.

You might be surprised at some of us who are not doing a modern workforce mobility thing. I'm not that old (38) and have stayed working for the same small company for almost 18 years. I helped grow it from very early on and still have no plans to leave.

Plus, it seems a lot of people move as often or more often than they switch jobs, though not so much if school-age children are involved. I wouldn't expect too much interest from those families in downtown as a living spot unless they're already using private schools.

The trend is definitely back towards urban areas rather than continuing out to far away suburbs. Unlike some other trends, this looks to be something that Pittsburgh would keep up with, if there is supply to meet the demand.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by greg42

The trend is definitely back towards urban areas rather than continuing out to far away suburbs. Unlike some other trends, this looks to be something that Pittsburgh would keep up with, if there is supply to meet the demand.

Show me some stats. More and more businesses are making their headquarters in industrial parks outside the city limits where taxes are lower and parking is free.

On my cul-de-sac of 14 homes only 1 person works downtown, the rest either have home offices or work in the suburbs.

Who wants a total 2 hour commute from home to work? Not me.

The old days of DOWNTOWN being King are gone.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

Most if not all of the neighborhoods that have been gentrified were never really that bad. For Example, Lawrenceville and the South Side were never ghettos. Has there been a ghetto that has come back? I can't think of one. Basically, what I am saying I don't think that the residential part of Garfield is going to come around anytime soon.

I agree for the "ghetto" neighborhoods it is a longer term proposition, and it all depends on what we see happening in the next few decades. For various reasons I think we are likely to see enough of a demand increase in the central area to push redevelopment into these neighborhoods, but admittedly that depends on a number of factors coming together.