The ebb and flow of Pittsburgh neighborhoods (Allentown, York: apartment, rental)

[Renaldo5000]

Anybody who knows anything about the city can see that Lawrenceville is experiencing a resurgence. The South Side used to be a dump and is now the most vibrant neighborhood in the city. Polish Hill (long a forgotten neighborhood) is becoming a hipster haven. Bloomfield is chugging along pretty well too. East Liberty and Garfield have taken strides in recent years. In a nutshell, there are many examples of once forgotten or crappy neighborhoods experiencing some amount of rebirth.

But, I was wondering about examples of the exact opposite. Do you know of any neighborhoods that are dying or decaying and that would not be a good investment for a prospective homeowner? My vote goes for the West End (places like Fairywood, Elliott, and near McKees Rocks). Also, it is my impression that riff-raff from the North Side seems to be spreading into Deutschtown and Troy Hill.

[PreservationPioneer]

Neighborhoods that are not showing signs of revitalization (in my opinion): many parts of the North Side. East Allegheny, Spring Garden, Spring Hill, are neighborhoods which, while not crime ridden or ruined neighborhoods, show no signs of rebirth yet. Braddock is a neighborhood which I think is perhaps too far gone to save, unless there is massive amounts of infill someday to replace urban prairie. Calbride Place on the North Side is a ruin, there is very little left besides a few scattered Victorians. Massive amounts of infill will be needed there. Parts of Manchester are also in ruins. Mt Oliver is an area on the south side that has a reputation for lots of crime, so that too is a neighborhood on the downswing. The east end neighborhoods are all improving, except for Homewood, Lincoln-Lemington, and Larimer, which are utterly hopeless. I don't know what can be done for the Hill District, either. It's a mess. Uptown/ Bluff has so much potential, but I haven't been seeing much done to revitalize the historic homes or the Fifth Avenue School. On the other hand, McKees Rocks is actually nicer than many city neighborhoods once you turn off Chartiers Ave, parts of which are seedy. West Park has a nice business district, and the Bottoms is a charming area, very industrial chic in my opinion. McKees Rocks is actually showing signs of improvement. The Roxian theater is being restored on Chartiers, which should be an interesting project. Anyway, you can buy a place in Mckees Rocks for the same price as a place in Braddock, an area truly in ruins. The West End has a very unique downtown area.

[hazfora]

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

Anybody who knows anything about the city can see that Lawrenceville is experiencing a resurgence. The South Side used to be a dump and is now the most vibrant neighborhood in the city. Polish Hill (long a forgotten neighborhood) is becoming a hipster haven. Bloomfield is chugging along pretty well too. East Liberty and Garfield have taken strides in recent years. In a nutshell, there are many examples of once forgotten or crappy neighborhoods experiencing some amount of rebirth.

But, I was wondering about examples of the exact opposite. Do you know of any neighborhoods that are dying or decaying and that would not be a good investment for a prospective homeowner? My vote goes for the West End (places like Fairywood, Elliott, and near McKees Rocks). Also, it is my impression that riff-raff from the North Side seems to be spreading into Deutschtown and Troy Hill.

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I'm glad this is a recent post as I'm struggling to make a decision as to where to live next. I've lived for over 12 years each in Washington, DC and New York City through many changes in its political and neighborhood climates. I can honestly say that I know both cities very well. I am temporarily transplanted in California for other reasons, and admittedly also so that I could sample living in the west coast. They are all great cities and have everything I want, but housing is expensive. I am newly retired, single, female and am looking for my new urban hometown -- large or small -- and high on the walkability score -- car and gun not necessary. I don't want to own a home and its attendant headaches. There is one issue that makes this all so complicated -- housing should be decent and rent less than $1000 for a 2 BR, because I don't plan to work for a living if I can help it. If I work, it will be to augment travel funds. I've been there, done that. I'm on to the third stage of my life for as long as I can manage and want to enjoy it.

The reason for this preamble is that it seems most of the writers in this forum belong to certain classes whose requirements differ greatly from mine or my ilk, i.e. 1. young, new graduates; 2. young couple, childless; 3. young or middle-age couple with kids; 4. retired couple. Where are the happy, retired single females like me who are looking for a decent place to live? We are a large group, too.

But I'm digressing from the main topic of your post. What caught my eye is your mention of Deutschtown. While researching Pittsburgh neighborhoods, the Deutschtown website's description of the neighborhood sounded very appealing. Oh, ok, I think that was a "commercial" from the sponsors, so I should have known.

So I decided to actually call one of the apartment agencies (that I happened BTW to stumble upon in this forum) to inquire about a rental in Highland Park and other hoods. The person adamantly advised me to stay away from Deutschtown (and also Mexican War Streets). So Lawrenceville was not in the "stay-away-from" list. I've read good things about Lawrenceville and will look there also. [I'm taking copious notes on everything Pitts)

What is South Park -- is that the same as South Side? I'm getting dizzy remembering all these nomenclatures.

I saw a great apartment photo in one of the rental agency sites called South Park and was wondering if that fits the criteria of my dream town. I thought it would be cool and a good joke to tell my nephew that I live in South Park -- he's a fan of the TV series [I think?] that I found offensive.

Ayy, lots of research ahead of me still -- but I'd love to hear feedback from you or any good folks in this forum.

[vtPGH]

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

Also, it is my impression that riff-raff from the North Side seems to be spreading into Deutschtown and Troy Hill.

Being a North Side resident, I'd say Deutschtown's actually on the upswing, especially for those who remember it in the early 90's and before. New restaurants (Rita's, Bistro to Go, Priory Bake Shop) and an architecture firm (Pashek) have opened up on East Ohio Street. Rebel's Bar has finally been sold and is being redeveloped, while Max's Allegheny Tavern continues to anchor the area a few blocks up, along with some new restaurants/ coffeeshops that have opened up. The East Ohio corridor has a incredibly central location to Downtown and the highways, which appears to be working in its favor. The side of Deutschtown to the east of I-279, along with Troy Hill are still holding steady, but I agree are more on the down than up.

[Renaldo5000]

Originally Posted by hazfora

So I decided to actually call one of the apartment agencies (that I happened BTW to stumble upon in this forum) to inquire about a rental in Highland Park and other hoods. The person adamantly advised me to stay away from Deutschtown (and also Mexican War Streets).

My personal opinion on Mexican War Streets is that it's an area with gorgeous homes that have been restored by well-to-do people, but the area is completely surrounded by the ghetto. However, our intrepid poster Hopes disagrees with me. I personally would not live there.

Deutschtown is on the precipice in my opinion. It is a quiet little sliver of a neighborhood that is wedged between East Allegheny and Troy Hill. It has gone downhill because the garbage from the North Side seems to be migrating that way. It could stay OK or it could go full-blown ghetto in a few years.

Originally Posted by hazfora

So Lawrenceville was not in the "stay-away-from" list. I've read good things about Lawrenceville and will look there also. [I'm taking copious notes on everything Pitts)

Lawrenceville has gotten a lot better in recent years. But, it still is a gritty neighborhood. Most of the people moving in are younger college-types/hipsters so I don't know if you would enjoy the vibe of the place.

Originally Posted by hazfora

What is South Park -- is that the same as South Side? I'm getting dizzy remembering all these nomenclatures.

South Park is a well-to-do suburb to the south of the city. It takes about 20 minutes drive to get there from the city. It is clean, nice, and quiet. South Side is the most active neighborhood of the city. It is where bars and clubs are. You do not want to live there...trust me. It is for college kids and young professionals who still feel like partying.

[Renaldo5000]

Originally Posted by vtPGH

The East Ohio corridor has a incredibly central location to Downtown and the highways, which appears to be working in its favor.

I agree. It is an awesomely located business district. If they could only get rid of the riff-raff that hangs out on its fringes.

[Urban_HillBilly]

It seems that neighborhoods with a decent sized business district are easier to get on the upswing; Southside with Carson, Lawrenceville with Butler St., Garfield and Friendship with the hopefully Penn Avenue resurgance, & East Liberty.

I first finally walked through Spring Garden, Spring Hill in the fall. I just don't see these neighborhoods ever becoming vibrant and on a upswing. Same with many west end neighborhoods. Not that they are going downhill, but they will just always remain stagnant.

I don't know about the history of the South end neighborhoods as much. But It is a shame many of them are on the down swing. A few of my coworkers come from Beltzhoover, Mt. Oliver, and Allentown. Back in their day they were middle class safe neighborhoods. Now they are notorious on Channel 4's crime watch.

[BrianTH]

except for Homewood, Lincoln-Lemington, and Larimer, which are utterly hopeless.

I recognize people tend to think this is nuts, but I have hope for those neighborhoods. Long-term to be sure, but I think the potential is there.

[creepsinc]

Riff-raff? Garbage? A lot of us live on the North Side and have never experienced any sort of problems. It's funny how the people most critical of any area (or entire city) never mention where they live. The types who, for whatever reason they're driving through the "ghetto", always roll up their windows at the first sight of "riff-raff". The same people who are so full of fear they'd give up civil liberties to be "safe from terrorists"*. I can't imagine living my life that way.


*before any panties are drawn into a bunch, I'm not talking about anyone specifically, just the general mindset inferred from the OP.

[groar]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I recognize people tend to think this is nuts, but I have hope for those neighborhoods. Long-term to be sure, but I think the potential is there.

definitely.

a friend of mine is a realtor, and he really knows his stuff, and he always suggests to friends who are looking for a super cheap house (and are willing to do work and put up with a less than idyllic neighborhood) to look in lincoln-lemington/lincoln-larimer as an area that could have an upswing in the future. that area is located right on the edge of all the "eastside" development, after all.

it's funny, i moved here from nyc 9 years ago, took one look at east liberty & garfield, and said "this area will be all galleries and coffee shops in a couple of years." it turns out pittsburgh gentrification doesn't move nearly as fast as nyc gentrification, but i certainly picked the area!