Downtown Population increased 25% since 2000 (Pittsburgh, McDonald: garden, garage, suburban)

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by pman

that's not entirely true, white flight started with the great migration c WWI...and was exacerbated by new deal era policies like red lining that actually increased segregation. things like standard lot sizes meant that you couldn't get subsidized mortgages (also a new deal era invention) for city homes since they often didn't fit the lot requirements. white flight probably peaked in the mid-60's but it didn't start then. one reason people lived in small homes prior to the 30's is they had to get private loans without government subsidies..and they often required larger down payments...hence lower prices and smaller homes.

I said "took center stage," not "start."

[BrianTH]

White flight began right after WWII and in many cities was in full swing by the 1950s. Those returning GIs and their families needed "breathing room" because during the war, the Second Great Migration and other factors had led to a large influx of minorities into central cities, and practices like redlining, race-based restrictive covenants, various ill-conceived and in part racially-motivated redevelopment projects, and so on, all contributed to heightening the perceived connection between minority populations and urban dysfunction.

Edit: As pman also pointed out. I don't know what "center stage" means, but certainly by the 1950s, white flight was a major factor contributing to the depopulation of many central cities.

[pman]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

I said "took center stage," not "start."

yes you did, sorry.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

White flight began right after WWII and in many cities was in full swing by the 1950s. Those returning GIs and their families needed "breathing room" because during the war, the Second Great Migration and other factors had led to a large influx of minorities into central cities, and practices like redlining, race-based restrictive covenants, various ill-conceived and in part racially-motivated redevelopment projects, and so on, all contributed to heightening the perceived connection between minority populations and urban dysfunction.

Edit: As pman also pointed out. I don't know what "center stage" means, but certainly by the 1950s, white flight was a major factor contributing to the depopulation of many central cities.

It actually started earlier but was put on hold since people moved much less during the depression and the war but those with means had been moving out since the great migration (although on class basis, some had started to leave cities with the backlash against the gilded age). that said, I don't much disagree.

[Debbie1125]

No offense to those who choose to live there, but I find the suburbs to be bland and boring. Yes cities have their share of problems, the most prominent being crime. I'll take city life over the suburbs any day, however.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Debbie1125

No offense to those who choose to live there, but I find the suburbs to be bland and boring. Yes cities have their share of problems, the most prominent being crime. I'll take city life over the suburbs any day, however.

Agreed with regard to PGH suburbs, so long as if I end up having a family, I can afford a good private school.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

It actually started earlier but was put on hold since people moved much less during the depression and the war but those with means had been moving out since the great migration (although on class basis, some had started to leave cities with the backlash against the gilded age). that said, I don't much disagree.

Yeah, I guess it becomes a definitional issue. Up through WWII, central city populations were still growing on a net basis, but it is true minority populations had started gaining share long before then, and as you point out, higher-income whites were disproportionately moving out.

[pman]

[LEFT]The Pittsburgh Urban Redevelopment Authority on Thursday will consider seeking $500,000 from the state to help fund the $74.8 million Gardens at Market Square project, Downtown...[LEFT]It will consist of a 17-story high-rise building with 113,000 square feet of office and retail space, a Hilton Garden Inn hotel with 176 rooms and an above-ground parking garage with 332 spaces. Completion is projected for 2013

Read more: URA may seek $500,000 for Downtown work - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review URA may seek $500,000 for Downtown work - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
[/LEFT]
[/LEFT]

[BrianTH]

Very nice to see The Gardens moving along. I was a little unhappy originally when it became an office/hotel project rather than a residential project, but with all the other residential conversions in the works Downtown, I'm now fine with that, and another hotel next to Market Square should be great support for the growing scene there.

[Blackbeauty212]

Do they have any updated renderings of what the Building will look like?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Do they have any updated renderings of what the Building will look like?

I'm glad you asked because it made me look, and I found this:

200 Forbes Avenue, Pittsburgh, PA, 15222 - Office Building Property for Lease on LoopNet.com



My initial impression is that the office portion will go along pretty well with Three PNC and the upcoming PNC Tower, and isn't overshadowing the lovely historic highrises along Fourth.

The hotel portion, on the other hand, strikes me as really ungainly and outdated. About all I can say in its favor is that I can see how they are making use of "Market Square views".