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My question is this: how come in Dubai (which I think the entire country is smaller than Pittsburgh) they build with so much diversity, and we can't? is it because we spend all our money on their oil, and we're strapped for cash? and they spend our cash to build those cool buildings? Hmmm...once again, a matter of priorities.
I don't think you want to use Dubai as a model to argue your point. They built extravagantly on credit and experienced a bust.
"The Emirate is home to some of the most ambitious building projects on the planet.
It is building the world's tallest tower and has just opened the world's biggest shopping mall.
Not to mention the vast offshore islands. Struggling developers
But now financial forces have turned, it is exposed.
The announcement by the property developer Nakheel last week that it is delaying construction of a tower that is set to soar more than a kilometre high, is a sign of the times.
The real estate market is beginning to unravel."
That's an article from 2009 and they are starting to climb back but construction is the most lagging part of the economy of which only about 6% comes from oil. Dubai's success story pre-late 2000s recession was its diversified economy, but they seriously went over-board on building and speculation, and it was on credit and that all collapsed with the world credit markets. Not to mention that there were allegations of human rights violations in the treatment of foreign workers who were brought in to do the building. Abu Dhabi, one of the other emirates, has been bailing Dubai out. I think it pretty much serves as a case-study for the need to consider economic reality in design and building.
That's pretty sad though...considering that "appearance" should come first to "attract" the clients. IMO
I don't think it has to do with ego, more so than differentiate yourself for the next guy. Uniformity is prevalent in communist countries...I mean look at South America, they spare no expense on diversity starting with color, and ending with different shapes. & They're not all that rich by comparison with Dubai...or the US.
Actually I have known a couple of people in real estate over the years and in fact, during my younger days I wanted to be an architect. And my father, prior to his passing, was in the process of starting his own real estate development company in the Hartford area.
Believe it or not, when a developer builds a building for some clients it most definitely is an ego thing. A building like the Empire State Building. AT&T Tower, Chrysler and Woolworth Towers and many others in NYC were designed to stand out and make a statement. These were World HQ's and the companies wanted the building to stand out and be remembered.
A friend from high school has a father that is in real estate in Hartford. Back in the late 1980's he built a 17 story office building in downtown Hartford to house his company HQ's. They built a building that had the parking space that they needed in the floors below the ground level and also enough office space above ground to handle existing needs and future expansion. The building is 100 Pearl Street. It is now owned by a bank and has received a facelift and now has a glass facade.
And my cousin's ex wife's father owned his own real estate development company for decades. He built commercial office and industrial buildings in the Hartford area. Same deal. Most clients want something pleasing to look at but nothing too fancy either. Companies are concerned with getting the most productivity out of their employees without having to spend a lot of money to accomplish this goal.
I like the idea of leveling Allegheny Center. Such an eyesore, but I don't think building a skyscraper there is the best idea. How about turning it into an extension of the existing parks. Only Green Space!!!
Ohh, I know that, that bubble was set to burst eventually too...(as with everything that involves "credit").
I am speaking about the "facades only". There are a lot of things you can do with color alone to diversify. One doesn't need to go all out of money to have a nice looking building.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinare
I don't think you want to use Dubai as a model to argue your point. They built extravagantly on credit and experienced a bust.
"The Emirate is home to some of the most ambitious building projects on the planet.
It is building the world's tallest tower and has just opened the world's biggest shopping mall.
Not to mention the vast offshore islands. Struggling developers
But now financial forces have turned, it is exposed.
The announcement by the property developer Nakheel last week that it is delaying construction of a tower that is set to soar more than a kilometre high, is a sign of the times.
The real estate market is beginning to unravel."
That's an article from 2009 and they are starting to climb back but construction is the most lagging part of the economy of which only about 6% comes from oil. Dubai's success story pre-late 2000s recession was its diversified economy, but they seriously went over-board on building and speculation, and it was on credit and that all collapsed with the world credit markets. Not to mention that there were allegations of human rights violations in the treatment of foreign workers who were brought in to do the building. Abu Dhabi, one of the other emirates, has been bailing Dubai out. I think it pretty much serves as a case-study for the need to consider economic reality in design and building.
I'm not sure I understand the premise--the recent major projects in the Downtown have been quite diverse in terms of architectural style. I'm thinking of Three PNC, PNC Firstside, the Convention Center, the August Wilson Center, the Mellon Client Service Center--that's a pretty interesting collection of buildings.
And the next big projects Downtown, the PNC Tower and the Gardens, are also interesting:
Ohh, I know that, that bubble was set to burst eventually too...(as with everything that involves "credit").
I am speaking about the "facades only". There are a lot of things you can do with color alone to diversify. One doesn't need to go all out of money to have a nice looking building.
Bear in mind that most of these office buildings are owned by banks, insurance companies and other financial institutions and also major industrial companies. People that own and run these companies are typically bean counters and practical thinkers and make business decisions that reflect these values.
There definitely are some flamboyant designed buildings out there if you know where to look. Hartford's Phoenix Mutual Life Insurance company built the world's first two sided. elliptical building in the early 1960's. AETNA built the worlds largest colonial style building in the 1930's. And One Corporate Center built in the late 1970's was built on "stilts". And the Travelers Ins. Co. Tower was the tallest in New England until the Prudential Center was built in Boston in the early 1960's. It's a Neo Classic tower with a very ornate design at the top.
Pittsburgh has some great signature office towers as well. Fifth Avenue Place has a design right out of the 1920's or 1930's. One Oxford Center looks like a series of "tubes" put together to form a big tube. The Gulf Oil Tower is an excellent example of 1930's Art Deco style which was very popular at the time.
Fountains located in Dubai should be duplicated at "Oil Center"
Above is PA's tallest building currently, it is Comcast Center Philadelphia. Not so long ago Pittsburgh was home to PA's tallest building. I would like to recapture that title and envision "Oil Center" located at the old Civic Arena Site. The tower will be 1000 feet and be the Northeast headquarters of Shell, Chevron and Exxon. Having their offices in one building makes sense with the Marcellus Shale Development. The tower could have fountains surrounding its foot print with a top ablazed with lights. Ofcourse high end condos and a 5 star hotel could be part of the mix. When Oxford Development lands USS for its new tower, Pittsburgh should focus on "Oil Center". This concept if built would become Pittsburgh's premiere landmark and could be a perfect project for Gensler.
be the Northeast headquarters of Shell, Chevron and Exxon. Having their offices in one building makes sense with the Marcellus Shale Development.
Why would competitors want to be in the same building? That's like PNC and BNYMellon being in the same building.
But its irrelevant because....:
Quote:
Pittsburgh should focus on "Oil Center"
....seems to be a lost cause:
"Mr. Guy said in May that one hindrance with the energy companies is the city's ban on natural gas drilling, enacted by city council in 2010. He said at the time that the ban comes up in every conversation and that the energy companies have just simply said, 'We're not doing business in the city.'"
I don't blame them either. Is there even a practical location for a fracking site within city limits, or was the city's ban just a stupid political statement?
I think the city's only (slim) hope for a super tall is from US Steel (who is in search of 1 million sq ft) in combination with a hotel and/or condos.
But I'll just be happy if USS stays put somewhere in the region and not in Houston.
But I'll just be happy if USS stays put somewhere in the region and not in Houston.
Not me. I'd consider it to be a huge kick in the gut for the city's image if one of its founding institutions, U.S. Steel, flees it for a far-flung place like Findlay Township or Cranberry Township just to reduce costs while also making it less desirable for commuting (and thereby diminishing attractiveness to recruiting future talent). I'm by far not the only one in my urban-dwelling early-to-mid-20s peer group who have passed up on job opportunities, even during the recession, because they are far outside the city. While most middle-aged workers with school-aged children may indeed live in the deep North Hills, for example, most of the area's best and brightest younger and/or childless talent lives in the city. It would be my wish that if U.S. Steel leaves the city that city-dwelling residents also sever ties with that company.
Contrariwise my primary employer continues to invest hundreds of millions into this city, and I'm so proud of them for that. With that being said the moment they say they are looking to completely vacate Downtown in favor of the 'burbs to save money I'm leaving. I love Pittsburgh. When a corporate goliath that has had a generations-long symbiotic relationship with the city decides to pull the plug for selfish interests, damaging the city in the process, I no longer have any desire to patronize that company.
Not me. I'd consider it to be a huge kick in the gut for the city's image if one of its founding institutions, U.S. Steel, flees it for a far-flung place like Findlay Township or Cranberry Township just to reduce costs while also making it less desirable for commuting (and thereby diminishing attractiveness to recruiting future talent). I'm by far not the only one in my urban-dwelling early-to-mid-20s peer group who have passed up on job opportunities, even during the recession, because they are far outside the city. While most middle-aged workers with school-aged children may indeed live in the deep North Hills, for example, most of the area's best and brightest younger and/or childless talent lives in the city. It would be my wish that if U.S. Steel leaves the city that city-dwelling residents also sever ties with that company.
Contrariwise my primary employer continues to invest hundreds of millions into this city, and I'm so proud of them for that. With that being said the moment they say they are looking to completely vacate Downtown in favor of the 'burbs to save money I'm leaving. I love Pittsburgh. When a corporate goliath that has had a generations-long symbiotic relationship with the city decides to pull the plug for selfish interests, damaging the city in the process, I no longer have any desire to patronize that company.
I'm not saying you're decisions are wrong, but I do not believe that the majority of people make their career decisions using the same thinking that you do. If USS relocated to Cranberry I do not believe that would effect the talent of their workforce 1 iota. Its not like Westinghouse is having any trouble hiring. If there is $$, talented people will go there for work.
That being said, I certainly hope that USS does not vacate downtown, but if they do, I also certainly understand their decision.
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