PPP law and AVR commuter rail moving forward (Butler, Verona: transfer, buses)

[FreightTrainRunning]

Originally Posted by trlstreet

12-14 dollars round trip? The comes out to 240-280 per month for someone working a 5 day a week schedule, using the rail line to commute downtown. Why would someone pay this when they can pay less than that for a downtown parking lease? I'm all for the idea and I think it would be great for New Kensington. I just wonder how many riders they expect to get at this price.

How much would driving a car the 70 mile round trip from Greensburg to Downtown cost you? If you have a decently economical car you might burn 2.5 gallons a day and at $4 a gallon you're spending $10 day in fuel. And then another $10 a day to park downtown. And then there's wear on your car from driving 350 miles a week. $14 a day is a bargain.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

And then there is the value of your time. This service may actually beat commuting by car on time, and the time you spend on a train is potentially productive time, or sleep time, or whatever you would like to do with it.

I am going to bet the train will easily beat driving a car from that region at probably any hour of the day. Oakmont is a horrible place to get to downtown. I mean, Hulton Bridge or AR Blvd? Ouch. I think this is huge for Oakmont and I will bet it gets great use.

Overall, it will be cheaper to take the train from that area. Pretty long commute not to mention parking in the city. Hope all this come through. Might make me look at Oakmont again at some point. Wonder if you can get a bicycle on the train? Oakmont is very hard to cycle out of safely. That could be a huge plus.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by trlstreet

There is a mention of the trains connecting to the T at Steel Plaza. Is this feasible or wishful thinking from the mayor? THAT would be truly phenomenal and could perhaps get the ball rolling for further light rail development.

It is definitely feasible and part of the current plan. There is already a single-track tunnel from Steel Plaza under USX to the East Busway stop next to Penn Station. It was briefly used for the T, but discontinued because with just a single track, it was hard to schedule meaningful service there as part of the T system. But as a way of getting a few commuter trains in and out of Steel Plaza, it would work fine.

To connect up to the AVR, they would have to run down the East Busway a bit, then use the 26th Street exit from the Busway to get over to the AVR line in the Strip. You can sort of see how it would work using these maps. The first shows the rail line coming from under USX to Penn Station, and the second shows how you could go over to the AVR at 26th Street (the AVR is the line along the river):

26th street, pittsburgh - Google Maps
26th street, pittsburgh - Google Maps

Note all this avoids using the NS track which parallels the East Busway, which would be a real hassle since it is used for freight during the day (unlike the AVR).

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by GeneW

How much would driving a car the 70 mile round trip from Greensburg to Downtown cost you? If you have a decently economical car you might burn 2.5 gallons a day and at $4 a gallon you're spending $10 day in fuel. And then another $10 a day to park downtown. And then there's wear on your car from driving 350 miles a week. $14 a day is a bargain.

Well, in your scenario, the driver would still burn gas getting from Greensburg to New Ken, perhaps $4 a day round trip. They save the extra $6 plus $10 in parking. So they were spending $20 a day (add a few extra bucks for repairs and insurance) and are now spending $18. Add to that the extra time spent getting to the train stop and waiting for the train and you are probably talking ~45 minute commute...not much off from the time spent driving all the way into town.

I'm agree that there are great benefits with the plan, just playing devil's advocate. I'd think Oakmont would be the primary source of riders. Perhaps they would see a small discount in rate given that they are closer to downtown from the end of the line.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Wonder if you can get a bicycle on the train? Oakmont is very hard to cycle out of safely. That could be a huge plus.

That's a good question. I think it would be a great idea to make sure there was at least one car per train that had RORO for bikes.

[gg]

Originally Posted by trlstreet

There is a mention of the trains connecting to the T at Steel Plaza. Is this feasible or wishful thinking from the mayor? THAT would be truly phenomenal and could perhaps get the ball rolling for further light rail development.

Now that would be amazing! This will be a very interesting development and since Pittsburgh seems to be growing, it could be very good timing to put this infrastructure in place. I always disliked the Oakmont area due to it being so hard to get in and out of. Got spoiled being so close to the Highland Park Bridge. You start getting a train going over there and that whole area changes. Then if you can get to the T! Maybe there will be a day you can get to the airport on a train. That would be over-the-top.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by trlstreet

Well, in your scenario, the driver would still burn gas getting from Greensburg to New Ken, perhaps $4 a day round trip.

There is a bit of confusion here. People have long talked about two different commuter rail routes, one from New Kensington and one from Greensburg. The PPP law could benefit both, but right now the most advanced projects is the one from New Kensington.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It is definitely feasible and part of the current plan. There is already a single-track tunnel from Steel Plaza under USX to the East Busway stop next to Penn Station. It was briefly used for the T, but discontinued because with just a single track, it was hard to schedule meaningful service there as part of the T system. But as a way of getting a few commuter trains in and out of Steel Plaza, it would work fine.

Would a stop at or near the zoo be feasible?

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That's a good question. I think it would be a great idea to make sure there was at least one car per train that had RORO for bikes.

I hope they are thinking about that right from the start.

What about Verona? I suspect they would have a stop there.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Maybe there will be a day you can get to the airport on a train. That would be over-the-top.

Realistically that day will be a long time coming. This AVR project would be economically possible because it uses an existing (and underutilized) rail line plus an existing and unused rail line into Steel Plaza. Unfortunately, there is no existing rail line to the airport. So, with getting rail to the airport you are talking about a project that would like cost on the order of a billion or more, and there isn't enough demand for such a service to justify that expense, particularly not when the West Busway allows pretty good express bus service.