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It's also a fact that all taxes need to be taken into consideration, including the ability to write off the city wage tax in Jersey, which is not the case in Pennsylvania. The higher the wage, the more likely that the total taxes equal. Both areas are historic. The Main Line was part of the Welsh Tract. John Haddon's grant of land was taken from Newton Twp. In West Jersey.
You seem to be on the attack when you drag a North Jersey town into this thread to slam it.
The Main Line comprises of many towns over many square miiles with historic buildings, estates and universities (in totality over 100,000 people). It is not simply 1 town. I can list all the towns, there are over 20. That is a key difference in terms of character, and how limited Haddonfield's is and how limited the housing stock is. The Mainline has more expensive real estate than Haddonfield, so if a family was looking to move to the area with a budget of $600,000 maybe Haddonfield would be great. But at OP price point, its list is not quite as attractive for the reasons I have already mentioned.Haddonfield is nice, and it works well for many families, but at a $2M price point it is not as attractive.
Southeast PA has 10 - 15 times more housing stock at OP price point that are transit accessible. I will end this discussion. Again this is the PA forum. NJ discussion should be in the NJ forum. If you want to discuss NJ by all means do it in that forum. I will leave no reply. I am stating facts, and you clearly take offense to factual information regarding property taxes and land use/character. Which is fine, if OP posts in NJ, I will take no part. But if they post in PA forum, I will give fair comparisons based on price points if one of the 3 NJ towns is mentioned.
Last edited by rowhomecity; 10-31-2017 at 04:21 PM..
Morristown is in North Jersey & has nothing to do with this board.
I suspect rowhomecity meant "Moorestown," which usually gets mentioned along with Haddonfield when the subject of the most attractive South Jersey suburbs comes up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowhomecity
This is the PA forum, and I am informing the OP of the area surrounding Haddonfield, which is totally accurate in terms of 6 lane roads with strip malls that are half abandoned. (Rt. 70) That is a fact. The area surrounding Haddonfield is much more suburban, in terms of strip malls and mega roads. Which cuts out the character. Haddonfield is a lovely town, with a nice main street. I also did comment that. But it is not the only nice town in the region.
It is also factual that the millage rates are higher in the NJ municipalities. You did not bother to verify the information I posted with links comparing millage rates from comparable NJ and PA municipalities, you just skimmed and assumed I made it up. Which is false.
I have been in the region for years and I am very familiar with both sides. This is the PA forum, and it is fair assessment to compare tax rates between the states, and to have an unfavorable opinion of NJ, on this matter. It is also fair to say that the municipalities have more of a suburban character with mega roads and strip malls, because this is true. If OP's want more information they can post to NJ forum. I do not go to that forum. If a reference is made in regards to the 3 desirable towns S. Jersey has, I will comment and educate in regards to tax rates, and lack of character in terms of strip malls and 3 lane roads with jughandles. I am simply stating facts, and given OP's price range topping $2M, I would find it more desirable to live in a community with far more character, and it is why I made a point of reference to that matter. Driving along Montgomery Ave in Lower Merion (a main commercial corridor) and driving along Rt. 70, there is no comparison on the difference of character. Noting character is completely reasonable assessment in terms of real estate.
I'm going to back southbound_295 up here inasmuch as there are some other South Jersey communities that at least I think are very attractive. Merchantville is one, Pitman another. Both have a strong small-town character about them, and Merchantville's town square has a whiff of New England about it.
What they lack, though, is homes in the $1-2 million price range. They're much more modest.
I've heard plenty of comment about New Jersey having high property taxes. But clearly they're not either uniformly high or so high as to discourage Pennsylvanians from crossing the Delaware. I know a family who did just that within the past few months. They moved from Bella Vista, which the wife (who I know) loved and her hubby liked, to Pitman because they could get far more house for their money there. (And that's how I came to learn what Pitman looks like - she invited me to visit when I was over on an inspection tour of Rowan Boulevard in Glassboro.) For all I know, it may well be that the value of their Pitman home, which is large and in great shape, was so much lower than the one they left in Bella Vista that the amount they pay in property tax there is less than or equal to what they paid in Philadelphia despite the higher millage rate.
The Main Line comprises of many towns over many square miiles with historic buildings, estates and universities (in totality over 100,000 people). It is not simply 1 town. I can list all the towns, there are over 20. That is a key difference in terms of character, and how limited Haddonfield's is and how limited the housing stock is. The Mainline has more expensive real estate than Haddonfield, so if a family was looking to move to the area with a budget of $600,000 maybe Haddonfield would be great. But at OP price point, its list is not quite as attractive for the reasons I have already mentioned.Haddonfield is nice, and it works well for many families, but at a $2M price point it is not as attractive.
Southeast PA has 10 - 15 times more housing stock at OP price point that are transit accessible. I will end this discussion. Again this is the PA forum. NJ discussion should be in the NJ forum. If you want to discuss NJ by all means do it in that forum. I will leave no reply. I am stating facts, and you clearly take offense to factual information regarding property taxes and land use/character. Which is fine, if OP posts in NJ, I will take no part. But if they post in PA forum, I will give fair comparisons based on price points if one of the 3 NJ towns is mentioned.
De gustibus non disputandum est.
The Main Line consists of 17 communities in parts of six townships and one borough.
The communities are Ardmore, Bala-Cynwyd, Berwyn, Bryn Mawr, Daylesford, Devon, Gladwyne, Haverford, Merion (Station), Narberth, Paoli, Radnor, Rosemont, St. Davids, Villanova, Wayne, and Wynnewood.
The townships are Lower Merion in Montgomery County, Haverford and Radnor in Delaware County, and Tredyffrin and Easttown in Chester County, plus Narberth Borough in Montgomery. That last is surrounded entirely by Lower Merion Township, the only other municipality all of whose territory is considered part of the Main Line. Part of Upper Merion Township in Montgomery County is also located within Radnor (the community)'s ZIP code as well.
There is indeed no South Jersey community with housing as pricey as that found along the Main Line, in particular the part of the Main Line north of the railroad route that gives it its name. But I too would take issue with your flat-out assertion that someone with $2 million to spend on a home would find Haddonfield not to their liking. They wouldn't end up spending that much, granted, but I can think of parts of the borough that are tony enough to please a family in the Five Percent.
And so what if Cherry Hill Township* is shot through with six-lane highways and strip malls? Collingswood is next door to Camden, and that hasn't kept it from reviving very nicely.
*Most of the other townships that border Haddonfield don't have this style of development. New Jersey DOT never turned the White Horse Pike (US 30), which runs to Haddonfield's south, into an expressway.
The Main Line consists of 17 communities in parts of six townships and one borough.
The communities are Ardmore, Bala-Cynwyd, Berwyn, Bryn Mawr, Daylesford, Devon, Gladwyne, Haverford, Merion (Station), Narberth, Paoli, Radnor, Rosemont, St. Davids, Villanova, Wayne, and Wynnewood.
The townships are Lower Merion in Montgomery County, Haverford and Radnor in Delaware County, and Tredyffrin and Easttown in Chester County, plus Narberth Borough in Montgomery. That last is surrounded entirely by Lower Merion Township, the only other municipality all of whose territory is considered part of the Main Line. Part of Upper Merion Township in Montgomery County is also located within Radnor (the community)'s ZIP code as well.
There is indeed no South Jersey community with housing as pricey as that found along the Main Line, in particular the part of the Main Line north of the railroad route that gives it its name. But I too would take issue with your flat-out assertion that someone with $2 million to spend on a home would find Haddonfield not to their liking. They wouldn't end up spending that much, granted, but I can think of parts of the borough that are tony enough to please a family in the Five Percent.
And so what if Cherry Hill Township* is shot through with six-lane highways and strip malls? Collingswood is next door to Camden, and that hasn't kept it from reviving very nicely.
*Most of the other townships that border Haddonfield don't have this style of development. New Jersey DOT never turned the White Horse Pike (US 30), which runs to Haddonfield's south, into an expressway.
You left out a few. Newtown Square, Malvern, Penn Valley, Bala, & a few others.
I never took a flat out assertion. But the matter is. $2 Million buys you alot in this region, and Haddonfield while being cute, just doesn't quite cut it. Its housing stock is quite limited. You can check the listings itself.
My main point. Haddonfield is cute. It has transit access. I do not discount that. But PA is just nicer. You cannot discount the character and access of SEPA. It is just beautiful. Haddonfield is one town. (Collingswood is not in a good district, and Moorestown has no transit). So I just think given OP's price range NJ is not even an option. Look at facts and data. And out of the top zips in the region. NJ gets 1. DE gets 1. And the rest go to PA. Its just facts and figures. I think its funny that people from NJ think because they have 2 nice towns, they are competitive. But when you actually look at the market, they are not even on the map in terms of real estate. I am a data guy. Ego is bigger than numbers for many. Again if one is buying at a price point of 500k - $1M. Maybe S. jersey does it. But for $2M all the market is in PA. All the data and numbers prove, it. And for sure the history shows it. I think it is funny when people from NJ think they are even comparable.
Its all defense from NJ side. Literally it looks like a suburban mess minus a one or two nice towns. With 1 transit line. The PA side is far more historic with far more character and history and way less influence of modern day suburban highways/mess. This is the PA forum, so I will rightfully highlight our historical significance and downplay those who think 6 lane super highways with abandon shopping centers are 'normal'. Anyways "OP" your search will prove to you, at $2 million. No one moves to NJ. that is just silly. And just plain dumb.
NJ is not a bad place. But all the wealth is not there. It is in PA in terms of the Philadelphia metro. And that is the facts.
Last edited by rowhomecity; 11-01-2017 at 01:30 AM..
You left out a few. Newtown Square, Malvern, Penn Valley, Bala, & a few others.
I never took a flat out assertion. But the matter is. $2 Million buys you alot in this region, and Haddonfield while being cute, just doesn't quite cut it. Its housing stock is quite limited. You can check the listings itself.
My main point. Haddonfield is cute. It has transit access. I do not discount that. But PA is just nicer. You cannot discount the character and access of SEPA. It is just beautiful. Haddonfield is one town. (Collingswood is not in a good district, and Moorestown has no transit). So I just think given OP's price range NJ is not even an option. Look at facts and data. And out of the top zips in the region. NJ gets 1. DE gets 1. And the rest go to PA. Its just facts and figures. I think its funny that people from NJ think because they have 2 nice towns, they are competitive. But when you actually look at the market, they are not even on the map in terms of real estate. I am a data guy. Ego is bigger than numbers for many. Again if one is buying at a price point of 500k - $1M. Maybe S. jersey does it. But for $2M all the market is in PA. All the data and numbers prove, it. And for sure the history shows it. I think it is funny when people from NJ think they are even comparable.
Its all defense from NJ side. Literally it looks like a suburban mess minus a one or two nice towns. With 1 transit line. The PA side is far more historic with far more character and history and way less influence of modern day suburban highways/mess. This is the PA forum, so I will rightfully highlight our historical significance and downplay those who think 6 lane super highways with abandon shopping centers are 'normal'. Anyways "OP" your search will prove to you, at $2 million. No one moves to NJ. that is just silly. And just plain dumb.
NJ is not a bad place. But all the wealth is not there. It is in PA in terms of the Philadelphia metro. And that is the facts.
I'm considering a move to PA amongst other options and being a former NE NJ native now residing in the NJ Philly metro for almost 5.5 years I agree with the bolded. To me the NJ side of where we're discussing here is sought of like a "bad soup recipie" as well as it's not-structured well as far as transit and whatnot overall including RE taxes even though the housing may cost less or one may get more Square footage for the $ (but not planned well at all imo) verses the older well planned SE PA region. You may see a potential population increase in former NJ-ians relocating to SE PA after the governor election if the "D" wins. Sorry if some of my post here is too NJ centric by in part agreeing with the quoted post(er).
I also agree with SE PA wealth - just no comparison imho.
You left out a few. Newtown Square, Malvern, Penn Valley, Bala, & a few others.
.
I agree with your arguement about the higher real estate values and desirability in SEPA, but those towns are not typically included in the traditional Main Line. I guess techically Malvern is a part of the Upper Main Line, but a lot of communities like Newtown Square, Media, West Chester, Glen Mills all like to advertise "Main Line Living" as if that will draw more people to the area.
When in reality, I Newtown Square, Media, West Chester, etc. have enough catchet of their own, they don't need the Main Line to look any better. (I actually think of lot of these towns are even nice then the Main Line, but just my opinion).
Also, there are a lot of other communities beyond the Main Line where a $1M home is easy to find: Newtown Square, Upper Providence, Edgemont, West Chester, Thornbury, Chadds Ford, Glen Mills, and that is just Delaware County. You also have the several communities in Bucks/ Montco that fit the bill. hopefully the OP will tour a few on their upcoming visit.
I agree with your arguement about the higher real estate values and desirability in SEPA, but those towns are not typically included in the traditional Main Line. I guess techically Malvern is a part of the Upper Main Line, but a lot of communities like Newtown Square, Media, West Chester, Glen Mills all like to advertise "Main Line Living" as if that will draw more people to the area.
When in reality, I Newtown Square, Media, West Chester, etc. have enough catchet of their own, they don't need the Main Line to look any better. (I actually think of lot of these towns are even nice then the Main Line, but just my opinion).
Also, there are a lot of other communities beyond the Main Line where a $1M home is easy to find: Newtown Square, Upper Providence, Edgemont, West Chester, Thornbury, Chadds Ford, Glen Mills, and that is just Delaware County. You also have the several communities in Bucks/ Montco that fit the bill. hopefully the OP will tour a few on their upcoming visit.
I agree with you. The Mainline seems to have grown and grown from what it is and was-train stations on the Pennsylvania Railroad. I think it's funny when someone refers to Newtown Square (which I agree is plenty nice on its own) as "The Mainline" lol.
The moniker is "Old Maids Never Wed And Have Babies"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
I suspect rowhomecity meant "Moorestown," which usually gets mentioned along with Haddonfield when the subject of the most attractive South Jersey suburbs comes up.
I'm going to back southbound_295 up here inasmuch as there are some other South Jersey communities that at least I think are very attractive. Merchantville is one, Pitman another. Both have a strong small-town character about them, and Merchantville's town square has a whiff of New England about it.
What they lack, though, is homes in the $1-2 million price range. They're much more modest.
I've heard plenty of comment about New Jersey having high property taxes. But clearly they're not either uniformly high or so high as to discourage Pennsylvanians from crossing the Delaware. I know a family who did just that within the past few months. They moved from Bella Vista, which the wife (who I know) loved and her hubby liked, to Pitman because they could get far more house for their money there. (And that's how I came to learn what Pitman looks like - she invited me to visit when I was over on an inspection tour of Rowan Boulevard in Glassboro.) For all I know, it may well be that the value of their Pitman home, which is large and in great shape, was so much lower than the one they left in Bella Vista that the amount they pay in property tax there is less than or equal to what they paid in Philadelphia despite the higher millage rate.
Thanks, MarketStEl. To answer your questions, property values are down in Pitman because of the closure of the Sony plant. My sister has lived there for nearly 40 years. Merchantville property is low for what you get because they are stuck in an agreement with Pennsauken to send kids there for high school. They have been looking into merging with Cherry Hill for that reason.
The OP gave a price range of 1.5 (preferably) to 2 million dollars. We don't know, nor is it our business, if they need to go that high for tax reasons or if that's where they feel that they would have to go, price-wise. For that reason, I threw in an oh, by the way suggestion of one town that has, consistently, over the years been mentioned with the Main Line. The downtown is always mentioned as being one of the best in the area. It bleeds across lines to Haddon Heights & Haddon Twp, the reason that they are sometimes referred to collectively as the Haddons.
My intention was simply another option, knowing that it would probably be unnecessary. However, it doesn't hurt to have a quicker commute to Center City, via PATCO. I expected my post to be ignored not met with what I consider to be venomous & misleading allegations. I do know that I worked with several guys, over the years, who lived on the Main Line, who looked at comparable towns in South Jersey, but didn't make the move either because their wives worked & their mothers took care of the kids after school or because their parents were old & needed assistance. (hardly damning reasons)
I'm considering a move to PA amongst other options and being a former NE NJ native now residing in the NJ Philly metro for almost 5.5 years I agree with the bolded. To me the NJ side of where we're discussing here is sought of like a "bad soup recipie" as well as it's not-structured well as far as transit and whatnot overall including RE taxes even though the housing may cost less or one may get more Square footage for the $ (but not planned well at all imo) verses the older well planned SE PA region. You may see a potential population increase in former NJ-ians relocating to SE PA after the governor election if the "D" wins. Sorry if some of my post here is too NJ centric by in part agreeing with the quoted post(er).
I also agree with SE PA wealth - just no comparison imho.
It's a "pick your poison" scenario really.
Thank you for your post. It affirms what I have been trying to say, but the other poster for some reason cannot accept that there are differences of built environment. And that was my point, and a valid point to raise to anyone who is not familiar with the region.
S. Jersey has 2 lovely towns with transit access. But other than that, it is quite contained, and the rest of the area is sprawling, suburbs with 6 lane roads and strip malls for the most part. Morrestown is lovely but it has no transit access.
It was all I wanted to highlight within this forum, and the one poster from Cherry Hill took offense, without accepting the facts.
The big difference in built environment, is that S. Jersey really did not start to grow until the 1950s, and therefore its development is largely auto oriented. It's first transit line did not open until 1969. So therefore my assessment concerning the built environment is 100%.
SEPTA on the other hand has 13 commuter rail lines with over 100 stations. There just is no comparison. The system is much older, so the built environment is completely different in SE PA, and that is why there are over 20 Haddonfield's in PA. (Transit oriented, historic, walkable towns).
S. Jersey is fine, its not an awful place, but I am just comparing character, and while a place like Haddonfield is indeed nice, it is relatively contained. Which does not hold in SE PA. It covers many miles, even throughout the commercial corridors, which tend to be very dense, and historic with buildings of historic significance.
Even the transit stations are beautiful, designed by renowned architects. And it just explains the wealth, history and character of SE PA, if our transit stations alone are just absolutely beautiful. https://philly.curbed.com/maps/septa...istoric-pretty
Haddonfield is a lovely town. But when I compare SE PA, and S. NJ. All the statements I said are true. And anyone looking to move to the region. Should be made aware of the differences. Simple.
Also the express train from Villanova to Center City takes the same amount of time that PATCO takes to get to Haddonfield from Center City. SEPTA is not perfect, but PATCO is one line with 9 stops. SEPTA has 13 lines with over 100 stops. A huge difference.
I must remind the poster from Cherry Hill, that he is posting in the Pennsylvania forum, so I will proudly point out the differences.
Last edited by rowhomecity; 11-01-2017 at 08:21 PM..
This is the most prime example of the difference between SE PA and S. NJ. Here we have an original estate from William Penn's land tract from the 1600s on the market now for $10M. The fact I got back lash from the Cherry Hill poster is just not valid. I will gladly highlight anyone moving to this region the more significant, and valuable side. I really think the poster should save his comments for the NJ forums. Again this is the PA forum. Expect to see some backlash from the side that is 100% more significant, historically, and in all other areas.
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