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Many of us made a go of it in a deeply wounded city. Thousands had to leave & chase their jobs down to North Carolina. The eds & meds kept the city going enough that Philadelphia didn't become Detroit. There are tons of sites that need work. There's 40 or 50 years worth of sites that need attention. 4 floors is better than no floors. The city needs to retain human scale. Without it, it changes the nature of Center City. The human scale in Philadelphia makes the city warm & welcoming. Being in a canyon of skyscrapers gives a very cold & impersonal feel.
Just remember, the Gallery has been a blot on Center City since Rizzo allowed a suburban developer to go in, tear down perfectly good buildings from the 1820s & put a suburban monstrosity in their place. Market St would look infinitely better today if Rizzo had done what the people wanted & found a developer who would tunnel through those buildings & use them as the facade of a mall. Don't think that that never crosses the minds of people who make those decisions. Sometimes the people really know best.
You can't blame Rizzo entirely for the Gallery. There was also G. Stockton Strawbridge and Ed Bacon who favored it. And it was success at the beginning. We can look back and wish we had those old buildings; I wish they were there too. But would the commuter train tunnel and Market East Station have happened without the mall? I'm not sure.
Do you honestly believe that the magnificent Manhattan skyline is cold and inpersonal?! I mean, seriously? Seeing it, at night all lit up, as one goes down the spiral toward the Lincoln Tunnel fills me with pride about being an American.
I like the scale of Phila. which is factor in why I live here. But, the nimbyism and provincialism is just so pervasive here.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01
You can't blame Rizzo entirely for the Gallery. There was also G. Stockton Strawbridge and Ed Bacon who favored it. And it was success at the beginning. We can look back and wish we had those old buildings; I wish they were there too. But would the commuter train tunnel and Market East Station have happened without the mall? I'm not sure.
Do you honestly believe that the magnificent Manhattan skyline is cold and inpersonal?! I mean, seriously? Seeing it, at night all lit up, as one goes down the spiral toward the Lincoln Tunnel fills me with pride about being an American.
I like the scale of Phila. which is factor in why I live here. But, the nimbyism and provincialism is just so pervasive here.
The Manhattan skyline is fine. It doesn't excite me. However, I absolutely detest being in a concrete canyon. As an example, Charlotte tore down a huge amount of its downtown area. It's pretty much all tall buildings & skyscrapers. When I first drove into it, I turned the car around & left. I was sightseeing & that was enough.
In my early 20s I liked modern. It wore thin quickly. I much prefer post modern to modern. However, I love old buildings. They are usually unique.
I'm glad you are not on our city's planning commission.
I might be one day! I am very much interested in Philadelphia city government and its peripheral functions, such as the planning commission. I believe that stately old, residential homes can mix very well with tall, modern skyscrapers in the background. Besides the examples that I stated in Philly, Tour Montparnasse in Paris is another good example. When I visited Paris last March, I felt that both Tour Montparnasse and the Eiffel Tower both fit in with their surroundings, which were multi-story residential buildings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
Many of us made a go of it in a deeply wounded city. Thousands had to leave & chase their jobs down to North Carolina. The eds & meds kept the city going enough that Philadelphia didn't become Detroit. There are tons of sites that need work. There's 40 or 50 years worth of sites that need attention. 4 floors is better than no floors. The city needs to retain human scale. Without it, it changes the nature of Center City. The human scale in Philadelphia makes the city warm & welcoming. Being in a canyon of skyscrapers gives a very cold & impersonal feel.
Just remember, the Gallery has been a blot on Center City since Rizzo allowed a suburban developer to go in, tear down perfectly good buildings from the 1820s & put a suburban monstrosity in their place. Market St would look infinitely better today if Rizzo had done what the people wanted & found a developer who would tunnel through those buildings & use them as the facade of a mall. Don't think that that never crosses the minds of people who make those decisions. Sometimes the people really know best.
I agree with this to an extent. There's no denying that West Market, in its current iteration, is starved of life after the 9-5 workday. I believe that projects like 1919 Market will help with this. A canyon of skyscrapers without residential and retail components give off a cold and impersonal feel, in my opinion. A canyon of skyscrapers with the aforementioned components give off vibes of excitement and vibrancy. South Broad between City Hall and Walnut is an excellent example of this.
The Manhattan skyline is fine. It doesn't excite me. However, I absolutely detest being in a concrete canyon. As an example, Charlotte tore down a huge amount of its downtown area. It's pretty much all tall buildings & skyscrapers. When I first drove into it, I turned the car around & left. I was sightseeing & that was enough.
In my early 20s I liked modern. It wore thin quickly. I much prefer post modern to modern. However, I love old buildings. They are usually unique.
I've been to Charlotte so I understand what you are getting at. You'd get along well with my sister. She hates modern architecture and pretty much loathes tall buildings. Maybe having a bit of a background in engineering helps me appreciate what it takes to construct buildings that are higher than a few stories. And old skyscrapers like the Empire State Bldg, PSFS, Woolworth and Chrysler Bldgs are among my favorites.
I might be one day! I am very much interested in Philadelphia city government and its peripheral functions, such as the planning commission. I believe that stately old, residential homes can mix very well with tall, modern skyscrapers in the background. Besides the examples that I stated in Philly, Tour Montparnasse in Paris is another good example.When I visited Paris last March, I felt that both Tour Montparnasse and the Eiffel Tower both fit in with their surroundings, which were multi-story residential buildings.
I don't disagree. What I do strongly object to is when the old is torn down to make way for the new. I lived in a city where that was the ethos. From a distance, the CBD skyline was quite handsome. At street level, however, it was cold, sterile and generic. The city gave away its soul in exchange for growth. Onice the soul of a city is gone, it can never be recovered.
I don't disagree. What I do strongly object to is when the old is torn down to make way for the new. I lived in a city where that was the ethos. From a distance, the CBD skyline was quite handsome. At street level, however, it was cold, sterile and generic. The city gave away its soul in exchange for growth. Onice the soul of a city is gone, it can never be recovered.
I trust you are wise enough to understand that.
Are you aware of how much of Phila has been torn down since, oh, 1915? I think you are. All of the Frank Furness, for instance, that was simply "erased" is breath taking.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01
I've been to Charlotte so I understand what you are getting at. You'd get along well with my sister. She hates modern architecture and pretty much loathes tall buildings. Maybe having a bit of a background in engineering helps me appreciate what it takes to construct buildings that are higher than a few stories. And old skyscrapers like the Empire State Bldg, PSFS, Woolworth and Chrysler Bldgs are among my favorites.
Oh, I appreciate that it takes skill to build them. I just don't like being among them. I get a very cold, impersonal vibe from them. I realize that they make a good skyline, but people have to live their lives among them. They aren't people-friendly. They dominate. I think that my thoughts on the matter changed a few years after taking Art History classes. It took a while to digest it.
I wasn't thrilled & excited when Willard Rouse got them to break the gentleman's agreement (But I was thrilled when Cherry Hill told him that just because he bought the Cinelli's site didn't give him the right to plant a skyscraper on Haddonfield Road.) but they said the tall buildings would be limited to a specific area. I haven't been a fan of the shoddy job that schools have done teaching history for about 2 generations. I see millennials advocating for tall buildings all over & ripping out buildings to make way for more as if it's a contest.- My city has more than yours. - There's something to be said for a well-made post modern building between 3 & 15 floors.
There are so many empty lots & buildings that need to be replaced for structural reasons, I think that the focus should be on them. Thank God Philadelphia has strong zoning, in spite of L&I's shortcomings.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01
Are you aware of how much of Phila has been torn down since, oh, 1915? I think you are. All of the Frank Furness, for instance, that was simply "erased" is breath taking.
That's the sort of thing that scares me.
Actually, in north Philadelphia where the plain, tight rows were built circa 1900, west of Broad, including Columbia (now Cecil B Moore) & Montgomery, they replaced twins. Not all of the twins were eradicated & you can get a sense of what the area was like when the twins were built after the Civil War.
Are you aware of how much of Phila has been torn down since, oh, 1915? I think you are. All of the Frank Furness, for instance, that was simply "erased" is breath taking.
Yes, I have some awareness, but not nearly as much as long time Philadelphians. I'm learning as I go. This forum has been a particularly valuable teacher in that regard.
That said, I also bring a different perspective to the discussion as someone who has lived in a handful of other cities. The level of historical preservation that has been achieved here is extraordinary. That is why the city is an architectural wonder - arguable the best in the country. The city should be quite proud of this. And I'm not only talking about CC. We are fortunate that many of the structures in areas of north and west Philly, though currently in sad shape, remain standing rather than being razed. In other words, these areas have "good bones." This means that there are more architectural treasures that can be recovered as hopefully, gentrification moves further out from the core.
Yes, I have some awareness, but not nearly as much as long time Philadelphians. I'm learning as I go. This forum has been a particularly valuable teacher in that regard.
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We are fortunate that many of the structures in areas of north and west Philly, though currently in sad shape, remain standing rather than being razed. In other words, these areas have "good bones." This means that there are more architectural treasures that can be recovered as hopefully, gentrification moves further out from the core.
A perfect example of this, and bear with me, is the 6000-6200 blocks of Market St which, unforunately, has a lot of abandoned store fronts. But most of the buildings were there over a century ago. If you look at photos on the city's archive website, and select that neighborhood, you see what was there that's still there including the old EL structure. I looked at photos from 1911, when the EL was 4 years old, at the NE corner of 62nd and Market. The building on that corner then is still there. It was a grocery store in 1911. It's a vacuum cleaner repair shop now. All these buildings essentially have "good bones". They just need someone to love them again.
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