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Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
Who's to say someone working a 2nd job is spending it on stuff? Maybe they're taking that second income & paying off debt or investing it or saving it for a large down payment on a house, precisely because they don't want to be impoverished or working their butt off in their 60s.
Seriously. I did it to pay for school. Or, to live while I did unpaid internships to get experience in the field (So I could get a decent job).
When you're 22-25 or older, 60-70 hrs a week is plenty doable and you still have time and energy to socialize plenty. I went out every night between getting off at midnight and bar time, I had plenty of energy. I wish I could do that now.
Go and find a career that pays more than that. Seriously, you're young, don't do this to yourself. You'll have an insanely hard time saving any money that way. Should you have a serious life even or lose you're job, you'll be screwed.
Don't do this to yourself. Find a job that pays a LOT more and one that does so earlier in your career.
It's what I will have to do if this turns out to be a dead-end career.. Waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too much money and time spent on education to get a 32k career.. I was expecting around 35-40k/year at least for the skill level and responsibility. The stats pointed to compensation much higher. The problem is to go up in the nutrition world it requires MORE MONEY AND EDUCATION.. About 20 grand in DEBT at least for an internship which is not paid..not to mention the time. I don't have either.
Your single and have no dependents. Do what many of us did and get a second job. Save that money untill you have plenty to invest. Build from there.
The job requires me to be available in the event of an emergency or call-off that can not be replaced. So the whole second job concept won't work unless it's an internet retail gig or something along those lines, which is possible.
One way that people are doing it is paying it forward to future generations. My first job out of college was for $19,500 in Washington, DC in 1989. Even back then, it was not a great salary. I still managed to save money each month because my parents paid it forward to me by allowing me to graduate college with no debt thanks to their working hard and paying for my college. I also received a new (to me) car as a graduation gift from them. My parents weren't particularly wealthy. In fact, both were fairly poor growing up and neither had gone to college. But my dad learned a trade, got a good job which allowed him to put in a lot of overtime, which he did. And he lived on less than he made and passed along some of his savings to his children in the form of an education so we could have a better life than he had.
Because of that, I was able to make it even on a low salary because I had no student debt or car debt. In addition, I followed my parents' example and knew I must live on less than I made so I could have the "power" to have a future good life, too. For example, I split an apartment with two other women, I woke up early to take a free shuttle bus to the city. And then walked about 10 blocks to my office rather than pay Metro fare. I didn't go crazy going out to fancy places. Because of doing those things, I was able to contribute each month to my company's 401(k) and still save $200 per month in a savings account. Fast forward almost 25 years (yikes!) and we are saving for our kids' college fund, hoping to pay it in full for them, so they also will have a good start on independent life.
Unfortunately, we cannot change what was given to us, but we can learn to live lean, especially when one is young. Many people see how others are living and want that lifestyle, but back in the day, people didn't know how others' lived except for those around him. I know my parents lived in a small apartment when they first got married. They didn't have a car or own a house until they were married for 8 years and earning a bit more money. I lived with roommates for about 9 years before getting my own place.
I think nowadays many people expect too much too soon and don't want to put in the sweat equity to earn the luxuries they want. The early years of saving are the most important due to the power of compounding. So if you can skimp on things and manage to put away a bit of money on a regular basis, you will slowly but surely build up a good savings nest that in the future will allow you more of the luxuries you want. And if your future plans include children, please pass along your good fortune to them, so they can get an easier start in life.
Just like some people get "stuck" in a cycle of poverty, in a negative way, other people get "propelled" in a stream of wealth in a positive way.
This is a very good, and informed post.
I believe it's clear that I currently have successfully "stuck" myself in the cycle of poverty. I've been cycling for years but have ended up in the same place (or possibly even worse).
thinking back.. at the age of 20 I was a couple years out of being able to land a job at UPS driving a truck in the Union MORE THAN I MAKE NOW with excellent benefits. I chose to go to school. What a fool. Instead of making around $20/hour with no debt I'm making $15/hour with plenty of debt. Could have got an education through Library late fees.
I've successfully become an overeducated idiot... overqualified for many jobs.. not qualified for many others.. Ah the American dream! .. oh well hopefully the residents enjoy the food.. I guess you can't put a price tag on everything.. but it sure helps pay the bills.
Last edited by Mikelee81; 11-07-2013 at 05:48 PM..
Do the math. An ordinary working stiff will make $2-million in a lifetime, maybe $3-million if substantially up into the middle class. A second job, full time, at near minimum wage for two years will bring in maybe $20,000 net after taxes, commuting cost, and eating junk food because there is no time to cook. That's at most 1% of your lifetime earnings.
Your life is divided up into thirds: Work, Sleep, and Being who you are and fulfilling your own personal life. Two years ("a little bit of your time") at your second job takes up 3% of your own meaningful life, in exchange for 1% of your economic gain. Not a good deal.
Just once in your lifetime, buy a $10K used car instead if a $30K new one, and you will make back all that money that you lost by not ringing up slurpies in a convenience store every night for two years. Instead, use that time to get an AA at the local community college, or spending meaningful time with the kiddies, or remodeling your own house. Unless you're a "pu$$y" who can't take responsibility for managing your own life, without a corporate boss to structure the work you "legitimately enjoy" doing to make him fabulously wealthy..
Just bought a good used car for ~$10! Great deal on a fuel economy car with only ~34 k miles. Could put half of the money down.. had to finance the rest.. so the payments are low. the interest rate is low. I'll try to pay it off quick.
So I am trying to be responsible. I really don't care to "keep up with the joneses". As many are under the impression it looks like, I don't envy these folks with these huge trucks and their associated expenses. I just wonder how in the world they are paying for the vehicle... because in my little world they are EXPENSIVE. .. Actually unaffordable.. I find it interesting I feel I've tried very hard to get going in this crazy world with a "real job" and when I feel I finally get there I still can't afford anything.
I'm really very content with the job and thankful for it. Jtur I think you hit the nail on the head that we can't let money control every facet of our lives.. Sure I could structure it to work ALL THE TIME with nothing but PAYING DOWN DEBT on my mind.., but then where did the PRIME OF MY LIFE go? You can never go back in life..
I'm very capable of living like a pauper (did it for years). I enjoy it to.. To live simple is better. I just wanted to pay of this massive load of debt that I thought I'd have a better opportunity to pay down .. just a tad bit of frustration. but time moves on and you deal with it.
Thanks for all that are contributing to the thread. Good discussion.
are you familiar with the term "straw man"? all ive argued was that working a second job can make sense in some situations for younger people to catch up a bit when they're struggling. i'm sure we can all think of situations where it doesn't make sense. way to go.
Strew man? YOU are the one who responded to my post, and I disagreed with YOUR points. YOU said "giving up a little bit of your time for a year or two", I didn't make that up, and I pointed out why it is generally a bad tradeoff.
Young people are much MUCH better off if they "catch up" by reducing the cost of their lifestyle, rather than working 16 hours a day.
Strew man? YOU are the one who responded to my post, and I disagreed with YOUR points. YOU said "giving up a little bit of your time for a year or two", I didn't make that up, and I pointed out why it is generally a bad tradeoff.
Young people are much MUCH better off if they "catch up" by reducing the cost of their lifestyle, rather than working 16 hours a day.
so no i take it you don't know what that means.
i think you are way out of touch with the realities of the younger generation. it doesn't cost $1,000 a year to go to college any more. overall i agree that a decrease in expenses is better than a similar increase in income (think time involved, taxes, etc), but we are talking about a person bringing in only $32k to support himself independently. surely it can be done but we are talking about getting roommates and buying clothes from the good will- not passing up on the brand new luxury car . it is not 1950 anymore
I hate to break this to you, but 32K is not a lot. I was making $30,000 with a new job in 1986. Think of the inflation and how much that could buy 30 years ago. Even with that, my wife had to work part time so we could pay the bills and afford a few extras. So calm down. Keep in mind you're just starting out, so buying a new car will take a bunch of your first pay checks, but once you pay it off, you'll have a lot more money to spend. Consider buying a used car.
Other people can afford things for various reasons. Parents helping out, trust fund, two income families or they are in debt up to their eyeballs. Resist going in debt unless you really have to, like buying a car or a house. Plus keep in mind, in many jobs, pay raises can come fast and frequent early on. They are first letting you prove yourself, then promotions and raises will come. Stick to your job, work hard and you will do fine.
You could also consider cutting expenses. DO you really need nights out with drinks in the club, $100 month cell phone plans, Starbucks every morning. You get the idea. Try not to spend money on things you don't really need.
It's what I will have to do if this turns out to be a dead-end career.. Waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too much money and time spent on education to get a 32k career.. I was expecting around 35-40k/year at least for the skill level and responsibility. The stats pointed to compensation much higher. The problem is to go up in the nutrition world it requires MORE MONEY AND EDUCATION.. About 20 grand in DEBT at least for an internship which is not paid..not to mention the time. I don't have either.
Oh well I'm thankful I have a job. Many don't.
most people start their working career out with a entry level position and pay, you are still very young so be patience. try to be the best at what you do and over time your pay should get better but keep your options and ears open for something better. never stop looking to better yourself. I been on my job for 16 years, I started out with about 34 a year and right at 50 now plus I can do overtime if I want. that's not a lot in this economy but over the years I learn to manage and make do with what I make but at the same time I didn't let myself get caught up in how much better everybody else living than me. you will be fine
i think you are way out of touch with the realities of the younger generation. it doesn't cost $1,000 a year to go to college any more. overall i agree that a decrease in expenses is better than a similar increase in income (think time involved, taxes, etc), but we are talking about a person bringing in only $32k to support himself independently. surely it can be done but we are talking about getting roommates and buying clothes from the good will- not passing up on the brand new luxury car . it is not 1950 anymore
I'm a retired senior, and I have no trouble living by myself, without roommates, on less than $1,000 a month. Granted, I no longer drive because I can't pass the eye test, but I had no trouble owning a car at a cost of less than $150 a month (including buying and maintaining a beater, and insurance and gas, and using public transport or walking for local trips), so make that $1150 a month including a car, and $1250 if I had to drive every day to a job. Lets say I make your suggested $32K, and I live on $15K. That's $17K discretionary. The alternative is to live on $32K and get a second job that brings in $17K.
I leave it to the readers to decide which they would prefer, to yield the same result: to live like I do for two years, or to work two full time jobs every day for two years.
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.. oh well hopefully the residents enjoy the food.. I guess you can't put a price tag on everything.. but it sure helps pay the bills.
Great deal on a fuel economy car with only ~34 k miles. Could put half of the money down.. had to finance the rest.. so the payments are low. the interest rate is low. I'll try to pay it off quick.
. it is not 1950 anymore
