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Old 09-01-2008, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
4,760 posts, read 13,836,685 times
Reputation: 3280

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeehound View Post
People complicate this tremendously, and get into silly "AP" or "Ferber" camps on what is really a very simple matter.

You have trained your child to cry during the night by rewarding this behavior.

Quit rewarding it, and the behavior will stop.

You are not doing him any favors by allowing his sleep to remain broken, and his need for night-time feedings ended a long time ago.

That's all. You don't need to punish him, and you don't need a complicated, confusing system to stop providing him with rewards for his night-crying.

Buck up, mama. His waking temperment will drastically improve if you will just get the guts to handle this... and you will feel much more confident about raising him, as well. Less Dr. Sears, and more common sense.

Now, I am biased, as I have had three children in less than four years, and thus do not have the time or energy to fool around with all this soft-headed "attachment parenting" business even if I wanted to, but when I see strung-out, exhausted mothers and frustrated fathers at their wits' end with a nightwaking two-year-old (or four-year-old...) I want to shake my head and ask "Now, WHO is the head of this household??"
Children are not rats and the principles of behavioral psychology that work with rats don't always work well with children. Attachment parenting is not weak, soft-headed parenting. It is sensitive, warm, responsive parenting. You may be sensitive, warm, and responsive as well, but it is hard to tell given the tone of your post.
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Old 09-01-2008, 08:30 AM
 
3,842 posts, read 10,520,591 times
Reputation: 3206
Quote:
Originally Posted by max's mama View Post
Loving parents were flabergasted what happened to their healthy baby who was steadily gaining weight before and then suddenly stopped thriving, or developing and gaining weight, just to find out that it was simply their CIO method. My AP pediatrician told me this.
I'm really pissed by the way you implied that I'm confused. Not to mention that letting a small child cry for half hour alone in the room is a form of neglect in my book.

Some adults need to be ferberized to see how they feel, let you be left in the room by your loved one alone to cry and see how you feel.
So, know it's gone from you "personally" knowing CHILDREN who were diagnosised with failure to thrive to something your pediatrican told you. Was this a patient of your pediatrican b/c I believe doctors are not allowed to discuss patient diagnosis with other clients. You mentioned singular...so it's it still plural? Seems you do not know this family personally hence you are not aware of everything involved.

No caring or parent who uses their instincts combined with common sense is going to let a newborn or young infant try to cry it out. After 6 months, infants are starting to comprehend the world around them quite quickly. They start baby food, etc. There is common sense in parenting. Some apply it while others do not. All the books in the world do not compare to a mother's instinct.

THe OP's son is 21 MONTHS...almost 2 yrs old...she has conditioned her child to find comfort in nighttime feedings for 2 years. Now, sounds like both mom & son are outgrowing this pattern (which should have been stopped over a year ago though this was a personal decision by the OP) & yet her son is insisting on her comforting him to put him to sleep. It's a learned behavior from the basic info the OP has posted & a behavior that is pushing her to her limits & she wants to figure out a way to stop.

The OP needs to pull up her boots straps & be a firm parent. Sure the OP is aware of this. She asked for suggestions, not for a debate on whose parenting skill is better than the others. If moms want that, then go to your local PTA or mom's group where it's a competition of who is the better mommy.

At 21 months, this chld is calling the shots. Mom needs to change this & wants to...good luck on WHATEVER you chose.
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:17 AM
 
2,542 posts, read 6,921,690 times
Reputation: 2635
Everyone needs to cool it. What we need to start understanding--well, I think we all understand it, but we need to forcefully remind ourselves--is that every child is different, every mother is different, and every family is different. And sitting at your computer and reading words typed from who knows who from who knows where cannot let you know if their parenting style is "soft" or "neglect" or just awful.

Crying it out simply DOES NOT work for some children. Night nursing into toddlerhood is just a habit, FOR SOME CHILDREN. Other children still need to night nurse, whether for nutritional or emotional reasons. For other families, the child's standard of living will rise if the parents get the child to sleep through the night/put himself to sleep.

It really all depends. We all know that...
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Chicago 'burbs'
1,022 posts, read 3,372,970 times
Reputation: 763
Crazyme, you are exactly right. I tried to give you some + rep, but they said I need to spread the wealth!

Just the fact that the OP is here asking for help says she cares and wants what is best for herself and her child. ALL Moms need some encouragement sometimes!! I hope that the negative responces she got don't discourage her from moving forward with whatever she chooses to do. We should be here trying to HELP eachother, not bash eachother.
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:07 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 10,520,591 times
Reputation: 3206
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandycat View Post
Give me some tips... tell me it will work... how long does it take... how guilty will I feel... any alternatives?
She asked how this method worked. Advice was given.

She asked for alternatives. Advice was given.

She did not ask for opponents of either to tell the other that they are abusing their children by doing one method or the other.

Point is, there is NO right answer. As a mom, you look at the big picture & figure through trial & error what works for YOUR child. You believe in what YOu are doing & stay consistent.
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:16 PM
 
Location: South FL
9,444 posts, read 17,396,612 times
Reputation: 8075
Quote:
Originally Posted by 121804 View Post
So, know it's gone from you "personally" knowing CHILDREN who were diagnosised with failure to thrive to something your pediatrican told you. Was this a patient of your pediatrican b/c I believe doctors are not allowed to discuss patient diagnosis with other clients. You mentioned singular...so it's it still plural? Seems you do not know this family personally hence you are not aware of everything involved.

No caring or parent who uses their instincts combined with common sense is going to let a newborn or young infant try to cry it out. After 6 months, infants are starting to comprehend the world around them quite quickly. They start baby food, etc. There is common sense in parenting. Some apply it while others do not. All the books in the world do not compare to a mother's instinct.

THe OP's son is 21 MONTHS...almost 2 yrs old...she has conditioned her child to find comfort in nighttime feedings for 2 years. Now, sounds like both mom & son are outgrowing this pattern (which should have been stopped over a year ago though this was a personal decision by the OP) & yet her son is insisting on her comforting him to put him to sleep. It's a learned behavior from the basic info the OP has posted & a behavior that is pushing her to her limits & she wants to figure out a way to stop.

The OP needs to pull up her boots straps & be a firm parent. Sure the OP is aware of this. She asked for suggestions, not for a debate on whose parenting skill is better than the others. If moms want that, then go to your local PTA or mom's group where it's a competition of who is the better mommy.

At 21 months, this chld is calling the shots. Mom needs to change this & wants to...good luck on WHATEVER you chose.

How about both? How about that I have known kids personally (but that was just a theory) and my pediatrician also told me about situations (and by the way, of course he didn't name any specific names, he was telling me overall, when we were discussing CIO of why he thinks it's actually HARMFUL for children).

Oh my gosh, who does OP need to put the boots straps against? Against a child? Who does she need to buck up against? Against a child who is not even 2? Who has only been on this earth for 2 years??? Who is she suppose to proclaim the war against? Her child's needs? Good grief. It's pathetic.

It is obvious at least to me, that OP in her own heart doesn't like an idea and she came here because she is just damn tired and she wants reassurance, that if she does do CIO, she is not a bad mother. And she wouldn't be, but she admitted herself that she has the same line of thinking as me and going against her intuition would be going against herself and her child.

Exactly - her child is 21 months old. He understands a lot more then a baby, if she feels it's the time to stop the night nursing, there are other ways then a primitive, COP-OUT CIO.
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:19 PM
 
Location: South FL
9,444 posts, read 17,396,612 times
Reputation: 8075
Quote:
Everyone needs to cool it. What we need to start understanding--well, I think we all understand it, but we need to forcefully remind ourselves--is that every child is different, every mother is different, and every family is different. And sitting at your computer and reading words typed from who knows who from who knows where cannot let you know if their parenting style is "soft" or "neglect" or just awful.
Exactly.

By the way, I had not jumped against anyone's opinion here. I expressed mine and others felt the need to jump all over my post and criticized it.

I believe CIO is awful. I'm allowed to assure the mother that what she has been doing so far is okay.
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Old 09-01-2008, 03:44 PM
 
269 posts, read 542,838 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topaz View Post
Children are not rats and the principles of behavioral psychology that work with rats don't always work well with children. Attachment parenting is not weak, soft-headed parenting. It is sensitive, warm, responsive parenting. You may be sensitive, warm, and responsive as well, but it is hard to tell given the tone of your post.
No, they aren't rats, and they are also not untrainable free spirits. We are all training our children to do and expect certain things, whether we intend to or not.

In this mother's case, she has successfully trained her child to repeatedly wake during the night. This has become counterproductive and exhausting to both mother and child, and there are ways to remedy the situation.

As to whether I personally am warm and sensitive enough... well, that would depend on who you ask. I'm sure the local La Leche League would find my old-fashioned methods perfectly abhorrent. LOL.

But my kids are laughing and playing with me from 7 AM till 8PMish, when I put them to bed and claim some uninterrupted time to spend with my husband.

Ah, ordered daily life. A time for nourishment, time for play, time for SLEEP.

Chaos and chronic exhaustion are the enemies of happy family life. If this mother has a sense of dissatisfaction with her family life, this is a sign that what she is doing is no longer "OK."
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Old 09-01-2008, 03:44 PM
 
3,842 posts, read 10,520,591 times
Reputation: 3206
Quote:
Originally Posted by max's mama View Post

Oh my gosh, who does OP need to put the boots straps against? Against a child? Who does she need to buck up against? Against a child who is not even 2? Who has only been on this earth for 2 years??? Who is she suppose to proclaim the war against? Her child's needs? Good grief. It's pathetic.
Please read & not interpret to your need.

I said "pull up" her boots straps. It's a term meaning you need to get going & take charge of the situation if she so wishes.

I was not infering she should hit her child. Good gracious.

I am only responding b/c you deciphered something so competely wrong.
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:06 PM
 
269 posts, read 542,838 times
Reputation: 130
Anyway, I second the recommendation for "Healthy Sleep Habits" by Weissbluth.

When I was pregnant, I bought pretty much everything by Dr. Sears I could lay hands on. This sort of thing was O.K. when I had just one baby (sort of; my housekeeping fell apart out of sheer exhaustion, but all the nice AP mommies assured me that it's all right to live in a pigsty if you are a "responsive and sensitive mother.")

But when he was 18 months old and my daughter came along, I reached a major crisis. The nice AP mommies had no useful suggestions on how to handle TWO constant nightwakers, except to complain that the government ought to provide Sensitive Mommies Like Us with free biweekly babysitting.

Even in my sleep-deprived state, this struck me as patently ridiculous. I talked to my mama and my grandma, who were astounded to discover that my toddler's "bedtime" was around 10PM and that he was still breastfeeding every three hours.

Long story short, I realized it was time to revamp my approach and learn to manage my household much more firmly.

Two years later, I have zero regrets. Zero guilt. In fact, I wish I had taken charge of my own children a lot sooner than I did.

Have no hostility toward people who cosleep and actually LIKE it, but I find in my daily life that people who ENJOY it are greatly outnumbered by those who feel trapped and miserable with a squirming three-year-old in the marital bed.
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