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Actually NO. She has repeated 1 grade and had to go to summer school every summer since 3rd grade so I would not let her fail anything. I don't think that would phase her really.
Yah I get it. You certainly don't want to risk her just deciding she is a failure. But the concern is, when/how does she come to own responsibility for her own behavior and activities? If Mom is taking responsibility, why would she feel she has to? It is going to be tough for you to maintain responsibility for the quality of the work through high school and beyond.
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I'll tell you my biggest fear. She will hit middle school next year and I don't want her to be one of those young teens who gets her positive reinforcement from attention from boys. Middle school can be a mine field for the best of students but I fear a girl not having positive experience academically might be too much under the influence of boys. We had an epiphany this summer. I realized she would never be an academic standout like all her siblings so we had to find other areas to give her confidence. She loves to cook and bake so we encourage that. She loves to run so we are hoping she can take track in middle school. She's not much for sports and wanted to drop out of ballet after only l season. fine. I won't force her. I'm constantly looking for ways to praise her.
Does she suffer from lack of confidence in general? I don't remember if you have mentioned that before. The thing about praise is that it can cause problems, or really can be easy to screw up. This book
has a good description of the limitations of praise and a refinement she calls "descriptive appreciation". Praise does not really cause self esteem. There are two kinds of self esteem; the value we place on ourselves simply because we are, and the value we place on ourselves based on our accomplishments. The latter is the one that most parents focus on, but in my view and the view of the author (from whom I GOT the view!) is not the one whose strength is most important. An accomplishment based self esteem is too rocky when failure occurs. It can cut a person's view of their very worth down to nil.
Also praise has a way of doing the opposite. The subconscious winds up thinking, why does Mom need to praise me for THAT, does she think I am such a nincompoop that I need to be jacked up all the time? (I did not put that very well. But I can't think of a better way to say it.)
Anyway, the author does a better job than I can with this topic. But the point is not so much to receive praise FROM someone else but to understand and recognize their own pride. Encouraging the things that she feels successful at, and likes, like baking is great! And it gives you a lot of opportunity for descriptive appreciation.
Anyway even if you don't read the rest of the book, I would recommend that one section on self esteem.
I wonder what the role of comparing herself to her siblings may play. I realize you did not mention that, so I am purely speculating here.
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Still she has to do her homework and she has to study. I just can't let it slide and I don't think she wants to let it slide. She likes to read comic books which we had trouble with but were told by educators that comics are fine. OK. Now I have asked her to make her own comic books. fun for awhile.lost interest.
we will keep trying. she is definitely worth it. whatever it takes.
some very good points. Thank you all.
I hope I didn't say she was doing homework for 2 hours. I don't think it would take that long at all and I agree some exercise outside is what she needs. and she loves her little dog. The girls like to unwind with snack, TV-if allowed or computer or outside play before homework. I encourage that. Plus they have walked home for 20-25 minutes so they are probably tired.
This is a little girl who was abandoned as an infant in Vietnam. She was undernourished when we got her and I'm all about healthy at our house. I'm somewhat overweight and while they aren't I'm trying to instill healthy eating habits at a young age so that is my concern about potato chips. From what I've read they are about the worst snack in the world!
I will try to get her to talk to me about the lies she has told and see if we can work something out. she lied about the chips so we will come to some agreement about maybe how many chips or how many timews a week she can have something other than fruit and let her manage that. Their school (and me too) don't allow any junk food in lunches. I try to get then 3 fruits a day.
She lied about having finished her homework. I'll encourage her to get at least 2/3 done in one sitting (probably less than an hour), take a break and then get the rest done after dinner.
One of the problems with homework is she does not want us over her when she does it so we allow her to try on her own then we check it and usually find all sorts of problems. This makes homework twice as long as it needs to be. We have tried to get her to wait till one of us can be at the table and accessible to see she in on the right track before she messes up the whole paper and has to do it all over again. Both us us are extremely patient with her, don't belittle her for her mistakes, try to make it hands on with toothpicks, raisins, spoons, etc to help- her bigges problems are with math and reading comprehension.
I appreciate your taking the time to think about this and to give me suggestions.
I totally understand your feelings about nutrition and junk food, but the older they get, the more decisions they have to/get to make about all that. You have her best interests at heart, but from an outsider's point of view, it sounds like micro-managing.
The homework issue sounds tough--I understand that you want to be able to help her before she gets too off-track, but appreciate the fact that she wants to do it alone. Independent girl! Honestly, I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation. But based on the title of your OP, that punishment doesn't faze her, I think on all the issues you have to back off on the punishment and try a different approach. Your goal is to have a successful student and honest daughter--I don't think you can punish your way there.
Honestly, one of the best things my parents ever did, and at a young-ish age, was to make me deal with the consequences of my decisions. I mean, they were never like "I TOLD YOU SO! NOW SUFFER!" but they taught me that not doing my homework and forgetting to turn stuff in led to bad grades which led to other consequences. If I didn't bring my lunchbox home, I had to get school lunch the next day, and I hated school lunch.
It really is effective...it taught me to think through to all possible consequences if I don't do something I know I'm supposed to do, even to this day. I suppose it was punishment, and I'm sure I thought of it that way at the time, but it was a more effective punishment than grounding or taking away other privileges. I knew kids at school who were almost constantly grounded or had privileges removed for any infraction, and it didn't help with discipline or anything else except resentment at their parents.
Maybe she is punishment burned out. It sounds like her life is a series of punishments broken up by life. Maybe I am wrong and the way you wrote it just made it sounds that way?
You have to pick your battles and only punish the worst offenses otherwise the kid feels they can never win, never not be punished and they just burn out on it and punishment becomes ineffective.
Also do you give 5 compliments or positives for every negative? It is really hard to do and it should not be general like "you a great girl" but specific like "I am really proud of how clean you made the sink look on your last chore-thanks".
Thank you Somebody, Marlow and Swanlady. I will definitely try the book and soon.
Her closest sibling is only 4 months older and a straight A student with printer quality handwriting. We try so hard not to compare her to her sister. We never say stuff like "Your sister never does that" or "Why can't you be like sister?" We have known since they were infants that one would always be more advanced than the other. Funny thing is sister who is so "perfect" is extremely shy around anybody else except family while this little girl is a social butterfly always flitting about. Kind of neat how they seem to make up for the shortcomings of each other. And the next set of siblings are 19 years apart in age so not much comparison there.
With all the other kids I was all about "You made your bed now lie in it". I didn't coddle and made them be responsible for so much. I once saw my son had not written his name on a homework paper but did not remind him knowing his teacher would take off 10 points for no name. Believe me he never left his name off a paper again. He could well afford a one time 10 point loss.
But with this little girl I've known almost from day one(she came home at 7 months after spending her first months of life in an institution) that she was different, that she would struggle- you know how a mother just knows these things? She was slow on all her early childhood benchmarks and had and still has some sensory integration issues. All this has made me want to protect her all that more. I can't even begin to understand how difficult it must be for parents of handicapped children to NOT coddle and hover over their children.
I think what I will do about the chips is let her have a reasonable amt of chips as snack two days a week after school if the other days are fresh fruit and let her decide and keep track.
Not sure about what else we can do but I'm always open to suggestions. Thanks again to everybody who is trying to help.
I don't think any of us in my family were punished for any of the stuff your punishing for when we were kids. You got punished if you stole from a store and the punishment was returning the stuff and apologizing to the owner. I think we all did it at a very young age (candy bar) and just once. I got punished for lying and sneaking off to the corner store to buy candy. I got grounded for that and had to stay on the porch. We got punished for taking the vacuum tubes out of the TV and throwing them over the back fence to watch them explode as they hit the rocks. I think we had to eat tomato soup for dinner (my dad came up with this on his own as my mom was out of town - I'm sure she would have come up with something more appropriate). I remember a sibling who was constantly bugging my mom for junk food. She explained junk food's effect on the body to no effect. Eventually she fed him just junk food for a few meals until he begged to eat regular again. I think that was the most serious thing from our childhood that I can remember.
But forgetting a note, not dealing with our own lunch or not finishing homework? Not a chance. If we forgot a note we didn't go on the field trip or whatever else it involved if mom couldn't sign us up late. Mom made lunches. Sometimes we did but not often. We grabbed the paper bag or took the lunch money. Homework got done with our parents asking to go over it. Not by them standing back and trying to catch us not doing it. I don't even think we got 'punished' for making popcorn on our own and not knowing we had to put a lid on it so it popped all over the kitchen. Our task was to clean it up but there was no 'punishment'.
If your child can't clean out their tupper ware containers put the sandwich in a plastic bag, put it in a paper bag and let her live a less stressful life. If she can't remember notes from the teacher contact the teacher, give her your e-mail address and ask her to send it to you directly. If you don't want her to eat food in the house then don't put it there. Your husband can keep his chips at work. I can't imagine my parents telling us that we couldn't eat what there was because the food was only for people more powerful or special than us. Of course we knew we couldn't dig into the birthday cake early or anything like that but if there was snack food available they didn't micro manage our access to it. If they wanted us to eat fruit then that was what was available. My mom was also big on not having junk food in the house.
If your daughter lies about finishing homework don't ask her if it is done unless you know it is done. Set her up for success. It sounds like she is lying because if she tells the truth bad things happen to her. Try asking her only at bed time if it is OK if you look it over for her. If you see some undone you can offer to help her with it.
I feel like your setting up your daughter for an abusive relationship when she is older. What if her husband feels he can punish her because he doesn't like the dinner or her going out with her friends? Do you want her to just accept it because all her life someone else got to punish her if she wasn't behaving just the way they want her to? To me punishment is reserved for something that endangers the individual or an infraction of the law. The rest is just teaching life skills.
Thank you Somebody, Marlow and Swanlady. I will definitely try the book and soon.
Her closest sibling is only 4 months older and a straight A student with printer quality handwriting. We try so hard not to compare her to her sister. We never say stuff like "Your sister never does that" or "Why can't you be like sister?" We have known since they were infants that one would always be more advanced than the other.
Ok here is the concern. This is NOT a criticism. This is just what it looks like from the outside looking in. It seems like you put a very high degree of importance on academic achievement and ability. The concern I have is that you have inadvertently given the message to this dd that she is lesser. You use the word "advanced". If it were me, I would strive to truly FEEL that they were differently able.
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Funny thing is sister who is so "perfect" is extremely shy around anybody else except family while this little girl is a social butterfly always flitting about. Kind of neat how they seem to make up for the shortcomings of each other. And the next set of siblings are 19 years apart in age so not much comparison there.
In what way is being shy a shortcoming? Do you view the difficulties that your daughter has in school as a shortcoming? Was having to repeat first grade a failure? Or another opportunity for your daughter to try that material?
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With all the other kids I was all about "You made your bed now lie in it". I didn't coddle and made them be responsible for so much. I once saw my son had not written his name on a homework paper but did not remind him knowing his teacher would take off 10 points for no name. Believe me he never left his name off a paper again. He could well afford a one time 10 point loss.
But with this little girl I've known almost from day one(she came home at 7 months after spending her first months of life in an institution) that she was different, that she would struggle- you know how a mother just knows these things? She was slow on all her early childhood benchmarks and had and still has some sensory integration issues. All this has made me want to protect her all that more. I can't even begin to understand how difficult it must be for parents of handicapped children to NOT coddle and hover over their children.
She has challenges. Everyone does. But your job remains the same, to help her learn how to face her challenges, not face them for her, as hard as it is.
Your punishments seem to be excessive. You have a sweet and loving kid right now. That is a blessing. I went through the same thing with my 8 year old. (the lying over simple things to get the outcome she wanted.)
The lying is the only thing that needs to be addressed with punishment in my opinion. The other stuff is very minor.
Release control of your child's snacking/ homework to a certain extent.
Create an environment that helps her learn to do this on her own. Create an after school checklist that you laminate and she checks off the list as she does it. Then at the end of the day, you look over it and check that it is done. If it is she gets a sticker, and once she has 30 or 40 she gets a treat. If she doesn't do it, no sticker and a gentle reminder to do it tomorrow. You will be surprised at how quickly she begins to take responsibility.
Don't keep unhealthy snacks if this is your hang up. Let her choose snacks for herself, and if you mainly keep healthy snacks then you both win.
The lying must be punished, but not excessively so. Maybe the child goes to bed early or misses TV for the night. It should be immediate and of shorter duration.
I don't know if you done this, but... Maybe sit down with her to talk about your expectations and ask her how she would like you to help ("support") her? This way she can think about it and set her own terms that she can do. And it could help make that transition easier?
My daughter responds much better to rewards than to punishments. If I tell her that she can play video games for an hour after she gets her schoolwork done, she's likely to get everything done in a timely manner. If I tell her she can bake a cake if she gets all her science labs for the week done, she'll get her labs done fast. On the other hand, if I threaten to take something away unless she does what I want, she feels bad. It doesn't help much either because if I take away screen time, she'll climb in bed and read a book for hours, and obviously I'm not going to take away books.
It sounds like there is a lot of pressure on your daughter..."the only child out of 7 that is not gifted at all, and I could tell she'd be slow from the time she was an infant" And not only pressure from you, but there's a stereotype that Asian students are all really smart, so she might be getting pressure from her peers too. You should focus on the things she is good at, and praise those things. Is she a good artist? Does she have great fashion sense? Is she a good listener? A good friend to her friends? etc. Instead of talking about how she's slow compared to every other child you've raised, find the things she's especially good at and focus on those.
Also, the food police thing needs to stop. I know you're trying to prevent your kids from being overweight and that's a good thing to do, but teach them what's healthy, make healthy food available, and then let them make their own choices. Otherwise, when they are adults and you're not there to micromanage every bite that goes into their mouths, they're going to gorge on all that forbidden food...and it's a lot harder to burn off that extra as an adult than it is as a kid. My mom was like that with the food, except that she thought fruit was bad for us too because it was full of sugar, and everything she fed us was fat free and sugar free. I was so hungry the whole time I was growing up...the first year I was married I gained 60 lbs. My sisters also packed on the pounds as soon as they got out of Mom's house.
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