is punishment demeaning? (ideas, teenager, teaching, milk)
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I had an interesting philosophical discussion with my wife and we discovered that we saw punishment differently.
One key difference was that she said that she felt that punishment was demeaning.
Now to me punishment actually should not be demeaning. Not to say that punishment is pleasant by any means. It hurts (if its physical punishment) or its restrictive if say a child is grounded or it hurts financially as in a speeding fine. But I do not see it as demeaning. I do not recall ever feeling demeaned when I was punishes either as a child or when I for example ger a speeding fine.
When a parent punishes a child, no matter how old, in front of others, I would think it could be demeaning depending on what the punishment is or the words used by the parent.
Just punishing a child for doing wrong isn't demeaning though, IMO.
If punishment is never used because it might hurt feelings (might make the child feel demeaned), then society would fall farther off the cliff. There would be no way to reprimand for wrongdoing. Kids would grow up with no dicipline at all.
It is a sad state when parents are afraid to punish in fear of hurting feelings.
Natural consequences aren't demeaning. Fair punishment isn't demeaning either. But parents who degrade their children while punishing are demeaning their children. I also believe that parents who only punish, and never reward or praise, are demeaning their children. Punishments are necessary, but should never be the only form of teaching.
Punishment in and of itself is not demeaning. It CAN be made to be demeaning (or not)....I would think if the point of punishment is to teach then it is generally more effective if it is NOT demeaning.
Note that being demeaned is not the same as being embarrassed. Kids may be grounded and be embarrassed about it but that is not demeaning.
I had an interesting philosophical discussion with my wife and we discovered that we saw punishment differently.
One key difference was that she said that she felt that punishment was demeaning.
Now to me punishment actually should not be demeaning. Not to say that punishment is pleasant by any means. It hurts (if its physical punishment) or its restrictive if say a child is grounded or it hurts financially as in a speeding fine. But I do not see it as demeaning. I do not recall ever feeling demeaned when I was punishes either as a child or when I for example ger a speeding fine.
What do you think?
So what does that mean to your wife? She never wants to punish a child?
Punishment for wrongful actions is not demeaning unless for example, your child does poorly on a test and you scream at them that they are stupid. Now that is demeaning. Taking away privileges, re doing homework etc is not demeaning. Lessons are learned from mistakes.
Maybe your wife was punished harshly by her parents so punishment in her eyes is demeaning.
I agree with PP. Words are very important while disciplining but there has to be consequences. IMO kids do want to know limits.
Demeaning to me means:
The parent always has to win, therefore, the child always loses.
Negative words ("You're ideas are stupid. They would never work.")
Going beyond the consequence as in taking other things away that the child would have received otherwise, such as, a planned trip, dance, toy, nightly routine
Always rewarding for behavior that should be expected
Punishing the misbehavior but not getting to the source of it. I have to explain this a bit further. When a child misbehaves, e.g. yelling at a parent, I believe they have two needs. One is that they need to know how to show respect to the parent, even when they are upset. Consequences are often used here. The other need is for the parent to know the source of the misbehavior and perhaps help the child deal with it in a more constructive way so that they can handle it themselves in the future.
I had an interesting philosophical discussion with my wife and we discovered that we saw punishment differently.
One key difference was that she said that she felt that punishment was demeaning.
Now to me punishment actually should not be demeaning. Not to say that punishment is pleasant by any means. It hurts (if its physical punishment) or its restrictive if say a child is grounded or it hurts financially as in a speeding fine. But I do not see it as demeaning. I do not recall ever feeling demeaned when I was punishes either as a child or when I for example ger a speeding fine.
What do you think?
Consequences do not have to be demeaning. They CAN be demeaning if a parent plays it that way. However, kids do need to be taught right from wrong and that sometimes requires that they suffer the consequences of their actions.
I do think that hitting children is demeaning, but that is another thread.
I agree with PP. Words are very important while disciplining but there has to be consequences. IMO kids do want to know limits.
Demeaning to me means:
The parent always has to win, therefore, the child always loses.
Negative words ("You're ideas are stupid. They would never work.")
Going beyond the consequence as in taking other things away that the child would have received otherwise, such as, a planned trip, dance, toy, nightly routine
Always rewarding for behavior that should be expected
Punishing the misbehavior but not getting to the source of it. I have to explain this a bit further. When a child misbehaves, e.g. yelling at a parent, I believe they have two needs. One is that they need to know how to show respect to the parent, even when they are upset. Consequences are often used here. The other need is for the parent to know the source of the misbehavior and perhaps help the child deal with it in a more constructive way so that they can handle it themselves in the future.
Yes, I agree with this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
Consequences do not have to be demeaning. They CAN be demeaning if a parent plays it that way. However, kids do need to be taught right from wrong and that sometimes requires that they suffer the consequences of their actions.
I do think that hitting children is demeaning, but that is another thread.
I had an interesting philosophical discussion with my wife and we discovered that we saw punishment differently.
One key difference was that she said that she felt that punishment was demeaning.
Now to me punishment actually should not be demeaning. Not to say that punishment is pleasant by any means. It hurts (if its physical punishment) or its restrictive if say a child is grounded or it hurts financially as in a speeding fine. But I do not see it as demeaning. I do not recall ever feeling demeaned when I was punishes either as a child or when I for example ger a speeding fine.
What do you think?
These are always hard posts to respond to b/c none of us were there to hear the actual conversation or tone of conversation or know your wife
Personally, I prefer the word "consequence". 99.9% of the time, the child made the choice to do such & such behavior/action, and as adults, we understand that all choices come w/ consequences. As parents, it is up to us to follow through w/ age-appropriate onsequence that hopefully has been set for the child.
NOT following through w/ a consequence (though I am sure ALL of us at one time or the other have not as some battles are not worth the fight at the time & in hindsight are more of US being annoyed/angry rather than something serious done by the child) is wrong on the parents part & just instills learned behavior into the child.
Making a teenager pay for a speeding ticket is one thing. Having your toddler clean up blocks thrown in a temper tantrum is not demeaning!!
But spanking your child b/c they spilt milk b/c they were not paying attention is another & is demeaning & has no positive effect. Yelling at your child in front of others for minor things (such as not sitting still in a shopping cart) is demeaning.
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