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What does she think about shame? Does she think that children should be made to feel ashamed when they have intentionally done something wrong? For example, when they break something intentionally or hurt another child or an animal on purpose?
I think that one of our problems these days is that children feel no shame for having committed shameful acts.
IMO children who have parents who shame them are more likely to do those types of things!
Shaming is VERY demeaning. Not good parenting.
There are MUCH better ways to teach children to not break things or to not hurt animals.
What does she think about shame? Does she think that children should be made to feel ashamed when they have intentionally done something wrong? For example, when they break something intentionally or hurt another child or an animal on purpose?
I think that one of our problems these days is that children feel no shame for having committed shameful acts.
Usually, if an item is broke ON PURPOSE or an aninal is hurt ON PURPOSE, it was done out of anger by the child. Thus, demeaning the child only reinforces the reason the child did it in the first place.'
Children under a certain age drop plates & pull dog tails out of being curious & generally not knowing better. Thus, parents step in & explain. Children over a certain age definitely know better if they do such things & again, age=appropriate & safe consequences that parents can follow through with should be applied.
Very little reason to demean a child.
How do adults feel when they are demeaned?
Imagine how a child feels.
Demeaning a child and punishment/consequences are two completely different things.
IMO children who have parents who shame them are more likely to do those types of things!
Shaming is VERY demeaning. Not good parenting.
There are MUCH better ways to teach children to not break things or to not hurt animals.
My experience is that if you teach a child that certain things are wrong they learn to be embarrassed when they do something wrong without having to be shamed.
Shaming a person does not teach them to be ashamed - it might make them feel embarrassed at being shamed, but it will not make them feel ashamed of their own behavior. That comes from knowing right and wrong and why things are wrong - and caring about it. That is developed over time and is a character issue.
What does she think about shame? Does she think that children should be made to feel ashamed when they have intentionally done something wrong? For example, when they break something intentionally or hurt another child or an animal on purpose?
I think that one of our problems these days is that children feel no shame for having committed shameful acts.
Hi,
There have been some very enlightening points raised in this thread. I would love to respond and comment on every one. but I won't.
I would say that she really does not think that children should be made to feel ashamed.
To me ashamed means that the punishment is somehow public.
punishment in and of itself is not demeaning. the model, camp pendleton- nobody does it better. military breaks em down and then builds them up with a new identity. if you fail to do either of these critical steps as a parent. you end up with a damaged human being. the kid ends up either an undisciplined out of control primate-- in and out of jail- incapable of self control-- or a highly disciplined person with no identity and with low self esteem and lots of shame issues who may perform well on the job but whose personal life is an utter failure.
Shaming a person does not teach them to be ashamed - it might make them feel embarrassed at being shamed, but it will not make them feel ashamed of their own behavior. That comes from knowing right and wrong and why things are wrong - and caring about it. That is developed over time and is a character issue.
Yes!
And, I think there is a time and place that a child (particularly an older child) should feel shame.
I recently had one of my kids (younger teen) do something wrong that involved hurting another persons feelings...in my converation with my son I addressed the issue of the other persons feelings and how would my son feel if it was reversed...and I used the words "you should be ashamed of yourself for acting the way you did". I did not want him to feel embarrassed...I wanted him to feel ashamed.
And, I think there is a time and place that a child (particularly an older child) should feel shame.
I recently had one of my kids (younger teen) do something wrong that involved hurting another persons feelings...in my converation with my son I addressed the issue of the other persons feelings and how would my son feel if it was reversed...and I used the words "you should be ashamed of yourself for acting the way you did". I did not want him to feel embarrassed...I wanted him to feel ashamed.
The problem is that shame comes from being taught that we are worthless. Guilt is about something we did. Shame is about who we are. When you feel guilty, you need to learn that it is ok to make mistakes and that you can make amends for those mistakes. When you feel shame though, you have to relearn that it is ok to be who you are. I would say that kids should feel some guilt over their actions and they should figure out how to make amends for those actions, but I would not say they should be ashamed of themselves for having made a mistake. Making mistakes is human and NO one is perfect.
The problem is that shame comes from being taught that we are worthless. Guilt is about something we did. Shame is about who we are. When you feel guilty, you need to learn that it is ok to make mistakes and that you can make amends for those mistakes. When you feel shame though, you have to relearn that it is ok to be who you are. I would say that kids should feel some guilt over their actions and they should figure out how to make amends for those actions, but I would not say they should be ashamed of themselves for having made a mistake. Making mistakes is human and NO one is perfect.
I try to be precise about the words that I use. So before I used the word ashamed, I looked up the definition to make sure that I said what I meant.
Here is the difference between shame and guilt according to my dictionary:
shame--a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior
guilt--a feeling of having done wrong or failed in an obligation
Merriam-Webster's definitions are similar, with guilt having more to do with deserving blame for culpability, and shame being more related to humiliation and disgrace.
Perhaps I should clarify that I am thinking of children who are of the age when they should definitely know right from wrong, aged eight or nine and above. In my opinion, children should be the source of pride and joy for a family and not the reason for shame and humiliation.
This is one of the reasons that I believe that children should have to return items stolen from a store, for example. This is an experience that is not uncommon, and the tradition response is for the parent to have the child speak to the manager to pay for the item. The act of admitting guilt is one that usually brings on a sense of shame and humiliation. Most children are motivated to avoid repeating that painful feeling. It's useful in teaching about having a clear conscience. I don't think it teaches a child that he/she is worthless. Perhaps it's all just semantics.
I try to be precise about the words that I use. So before I used the word ashamed, I looked up the definition to make sure that I said what I meant.
Here is the difference between shame and guilt according to my dictionary:
shame--a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior
guilt--a feeling of having done wrong or failed in an obligation
Merriam-Webster's definitions are similar, with guilt having more to do with deserving blame for culpability, and shame being more related to humiliation and disgrace.
Perhaps I should clarify that I am thinking of children who are of the age when they should definitely know right from wrong, aged eight or nine and above. In my opinion, children should be the source of pride and joy for a family and not the reason for shame and humiliation.
This is one of the reasons that I believe that children should have to return items stolen from a store, for example. This is an experience that is not uncommon, and the tradition response is for the parent to have the child speak to the manager to pay for the item. The act of admitting guilt is one that usually brings on a sense of shame and humiliation. Most children are motivated to avoid repeating that painful feeling. It's useful in teaching about having a clear conscience. I don't think it teaches a child that he/she is worthless. Perhaps it's all just semantics.
It may be semantics, but I think that returning an item stolen from a store should not bring on shame, but should be done because when you do something wrong, you correct it by making amends for that action. Atoning for your wrong action directly should not make you ashamed.
In the above, you seem to be talking about the parent's emotions, btw, not the child's emotions. Children should not necessarily be a source of either pride or shame to the parent although I know most parents do feel these emotions.
I want kids to be realistic in their assessment of their abilities and to feel good about themselves even when they have made a mistake.
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but I won't.
