Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid. (suggestions)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think the point Starflower was making is that it's not just this one issue. Any one of the issues the OP has mentioned is perfectly reasonable on its own. There is nothing unkind or "wrong" about not wanting her to have rotten bananas in her backpack. However in the larger picture, it seems this girl who is quickly becoming a young adult is having quite a few things controlled for her that perhaps don't need to be an issue. Not everything has to be a fight. If you don't want to have a fight every morning over wearing a too-skimpy top to school, you simply don't buy it at the mall. If she can't remember to remove old bananas, just get canned fruit. If you don't want to have a fight over potato chips, you simply don't keep them in the house. Having dad keep them around for him to munch on, then tell the daughter she can't have any suddenly becomes a control issue. If there are some legitimate issues that need addressed, it would be a good thing to cut down on the smaller ones that aren't as urgent so daughter doesn't feel picked on or overwhelmed.
I understand what you are saying, but to me it would seem odder if they told everyone in the house they couldn't have bananas or chips around because one of the children couldn't handle having them in moderation or doesn't put bananas in the garbage after school. How will the other kids in the family feel if the whole household has to change what they do because the mother feels one of them just can't handle the responsibility? Will the menu slowly dissolve with the child's inability to use the garbage can increases?
What message does that send to the child? From my view that would send a very sad message. That the child is so incapable of simple actions the whole family will change to accommodate her. I think it would be better to just take the patients to teach her. The dynamics of being coddled for bad habits is complex. Even if it takes her longer I think in the long run being able to achieve simple tasks will build her confidence more than allowing her lack of attention to overcome the family pantry. She will start to be treated differently by the whole family. How will she deal with this as an adult? Her boss won't be doing this, and there will be more than one action to overcome at a job. She needs to learn these skills at some point.
What makes you think this is overwhelming for her daughter? She still seems like she is playing, spending time with friends. Why do these simple things seem overwhelming to you? When kids refuse to do things, or lie does that make people give up on teaching them? They just think it's overly challenging so they get rid of the challenge? How does this help with the child's self esteem?
So far all I see is she needs to clean out her backpack of old food, can have some chips just not bags of chips, she needs to stop fibbing and she could learn better study/schoolwork habits. That seems pretty much the norm in parenting to me. I don't see that as overwhelming a child or cruel in anyway. I deal with this all the time. Do parents really just remove these things when they prove difficult?
Why would she lack so much confidence in her kids to the point of just removing the hurdles instead of showing them how to get over them?
Is parenting about emotion, and keeping things easy and the child happy at all times? I don't see the benefits. I see nothing wrong with No Kudzu addressing these issues, they are not big issues, she is not beating the child. They seem pretty normal, maybe a bit tougher for the child with lack of attention at play, but certainly not impossible for the child to learn. Just takes a bit more time. Seems like this child would benefit even more because left alone she just won't address it at all. The other kids might soon get upset at her and treat her badly if she just lets it go for her. What is beneficial about letting these things slide? You don't have to be gifted to accomplish these tasks. She isn't asking her to jump three levels in math, or get into honors classes. It's just a banana, and doing her homework. Even kids with attention issues benefit from learning these lessons in life. To be able to do what is expected will greatly aid her, especially if she has learning or attention issues. IMO, of course.
I have not read many of the posts in this thread, but I have a 13 year old daughter with a mild learning disability as well who has struggled with math and reading comprehension. Often students like this struggle with executive function abilities. These abilities are the ones that enable us to plan and organize. Some of the issues you mention can indicate a weakness in this area. Here is an article on some of the bigger issues that can affect kids with this weakness:
My dd needs to use a planner to complete her homework. She doesn't seem to remember what she has for homework until she looks at the planner. She also sometimes will forget to give me notes from teachers and not remember where she puts things in the house. She started putting school notes in her planner since she opens that every night. That way I get the notes.
I think other things would improve if I had better systems for things. I tend to be a fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants type of person myself, so sometimes things just get a bit unorganized. If I really wanted a lunchbox cleaned every night though, I would have to put a system in place for that and probably would have to continually remind my daughter to do the task. Or I could just put a daily note in her planner since that really is what works for her.
The other thing that worked for us for awhile were color wheels that were placed on the refrigerator. Our kids would move a magnet one space around their wheel every time they completed something we wanted them to do. This worked much better than I dreamed it would, but we did stop doing it after awhile for some reason I cannot remember. We probably grew tired of keeping track of it ourselves. However, if you want organization, using creative ways to organize task completion seems to work well.
Funny, my mom used to micromanage the cookies ~ we could only have two at a time, and both my sister and I ate WAY too many of them when we got out on our own, compared to our friends who could eat the whole bag growing up.
Moral of the story, I don't think limiting them works to encourage healthy eating.
How do you do it then? Just not have it in the house? Under your premiss they would surely see them at the store as an adult and buy bags and bags and scarf them down later in life.
My locker at school used to have rotten bananas and apples and I turned out OK, I think. I have an MFA and taught at a university for awhile before a successful corporate career. Those seem to be the kind of things you value. I get that you want her to clean the container, etc., but I join the people here who say your regimentation for her life seems a bit much. I had the exact same response as the other person when you said "put the backpack at my feet." Maybe you didn't mean how it sounded, but perhaps your phraseology sounds that way to her, too. You have problems with potato chips, comic books, homework, and you're anticipating trouble with boys with whom she has yet to show an interest. Honestly, I'm practically hyperventilating just reading about the pressure. You say there are some things you "let slide," but I bet there aren't many.
While she may not be as obedient and productive as your other children, maybe she CAN'T be. Maybe her attention span is too short. Maybe it's not her fault she forgets about paperwork she was supposed to give you. Maybe she experiences stresses we can't even imagine (given how sensitive she is to movies other kids take in stride). It also freaked me out when you described your older child as having "penmanship like a printer" or some such thing. That's a standard few of us even see the need for, let alone are capable of. I don't think you were meaning to create empathy for your daughter with your posts, but that's the only reaction I have. For better or worse, many people deal with pressure by subconsciously responding, "This is a game I can never win. So I refuse to play." I wouldn't blame your daughter if that was her feeling about life as she's experiencing it.
She's your "only child who's not academically gifted" but has a lovely disposition. I'd count my blessings instead of worrying how to fix her.
That line right there is why I think letting it go is more damaging. This is what it tells her and others, that she CAN'T do or be. Not her fault, she just isn't as good as others. This is exactly why I would just take the time and show her she CAN. Showing a lack of confidence in your child by forgiving bad habits can be damaging in the long run.
I have not read many of the posts in this thread, but I have a 13 year old daughter with a mild learning disability as well who has struggled with math and reading comprehension. Often students like this struggle with executive function abilities. These abilities are the ones that enable us to plan and organize. Some of the issues you mention can indicate a weakness in this area. Here is an article on some of the bigger issues that can affect kids with this weakness:
My dd needs to use a planner to complete her homework. She doesn't seem to remember what she has for homework until she looks at the planner. She also sometimes will forget to give me notes from teachers and not remember where she puts things in the house. She started putting school notes in her planner since she opens that every night. That way I get the notes.
I think other things would improve if I had better systems for things. I tend to be a fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants type of person myself, so sometimes things just get a bit unorganized. If I really wanted a lunchbox cleaned every night though, I would have to put a system in place for that and probably would have to continually remind my daughter to do the task. Or I could just put a daily note in her planner since that really is what works for her.
The other thing that worked for us for awhile were color wheels that were placed on the refrigerator. Our kids would move a magnet one space around their wheel every time they completed something we wanted them to do. This worked much better than I dreamed it would, but we did stop doing it after awhile for some reason I cannot remember. We probably grew tired of keeping track of it ourselves. However, if you want organization, using creative ways to organize task completion seems to work well.
This is a great post! From the article you've posted: The brain continues to mature and develop connections well into adulthood. A person’s executive function abilities are shaped by both physical changes in the brain and by life experiences, in the classroom and in the world at large. Early attention to developing efficient skills in this area can be very helpful. As a rule, it helps to give direct instruction, frequent reassurance and explicit feedback.
These skills will really help later on, and will show the child there is a way for her to accomplish the same tasks as others, just a different approach. The end results though, will be the same. I need a calendar as well, so does one of my kids. Who cares? As long as they meet their responsibilities, who cares how they get there. There's more than one way to skin a cat. lol
P.S. sorry for so many replies, I'm not sure how to do the multi quoting yet. Need to learn this.
I kind of agree with others who say to let the kid deal with her own consequences. For example, get another set of plastic Tupperware or whatever for when she leaves rotten food in the other ones and let her deal with the smell of rotten bananas. And then when she leaves food in the other one, tell her, she needs to clean out her lunch box or she's going to go hungry tomorrow. I'm sure she'd listen.
I understand what you are saying, but to me it would seem odder if they told everyone in the house they couldn't have bananas or chips around because one of the children couldn't handle having them in moderation or doesn't put bananas in the garbage after school.
To play the Devil's Advocate, I think "in moderation" can encompass a very wide range. In the OP's case, she stated the chips are around because dad enjoys them. So they're in the house. The OP has not indicated that her daughter has a weight problem or a medical reason she couldn't have chips after school. If she's required (by the school) to only have healthy food at school (the OP talks about packing a simple sandwich, healthy crackers and grape tomatoes for lunch), and the OP is cooking a healthy dinner, I don't see just a ton of harm in choosing some chips as her snack. I think it must look a little hypocritical from the daughter's perspective if chips are fine for dad to have whenever he wants, but Mom controls exactly what she's allowed to snack on, when she's allowed to enjoy chips herself, etc. While of course we all guide healthy eating choices, as kids get older (this one is already a preteen) there has to be some loosening of control and allowing for them to make more of their own choices.
Additionally, it may just be an issue of too many very small things being controlled. Part of adolescence is a natural breaking away from parents and forming of independence. A switch does not go off the day they turn 18 and suddenly they go from having no freedom to having 100% freedom... or at least when that scenario happens it usually results in a LOT of rebellion and going too far the other direction...
I've mentioned several times how I appreciate the suggestions, that her daddy and I have talked about this thread and how we might adjust how we react to her issues.
Special thanks to Ellar and Poppysead for their explanations. I think they get it.
I think this thread has run it's course and I won't be responding any more. Thans to everybody who had good suggestions and input. I appreciate it very much.
To play the Devil's Advocate, I think "in moderation" can encompass a very wide range. In the OP's case, she stated the chips are around because dad enjoys them. So they're in the house. The OP has not indicated that her daughter has a weight problem or a medical reason she couldn't have chips after school. If she's required (by the school) to only have healthy food at school (the OP talks about packing a simple sandwich, healthy crackers and grape tomatoes for lunch), and the OP is cooking a healthy dinner, I don't see just a ton of harm in choosing some chips as her snack. I think it must look a little hypocritical from the daughter's perspective if chips are fine for dad to have whenever he wants, but Mom controls exactly what she's allowed to snack on, when she's allowed to enjoy chips herself, etc. While of course we all guide healthy eating choices, as kids get older (this one is already a preteen) there has to be some loosening of control and allowing for them to make more of their own choices.
Additionally, it may just be an issue of too many very small things being controlled. Part of adolescence is a natural breaking away from parents and forming of independence. A switch does not go off the day they turn 18 and suddenly they go from having no freedom to having 100% freedom... or at least when that scenario happens it usually results in a LOT of rebellion and going too far the other direction...
Yes, she said Dad enjoys them with his sandwich. The child also gets to enjoy them with a sandwich, just not eat the entire bag. She gets grapes as well. But if I read correctly it's the lying that is being corrected. As far as the junk food, parents are told to correct bad eating habits daily through media, and other parents but when they do they are deemed controlling, it's just some chips. It's a tough call, I admit that.
Ok, lol, I don't think "in moderation" needs to be magnified. She gets some chips, she just can't eat them all the time and then lie about it to her mom. She is suffering the consequences of the lying. She is starting the think lying is a solution, her mom is showing her it is not.
So, when your child lies to you and sneaks what you've put off limits, or doesn't do homework they've told you they've done you just chalk it up to independence and let it go? She's only 11 and the parent should let the junk food and lying go? What would everyone on here say if her post said that she did that? I don't think she can win at this point.
Right now she is only 11 and there is time to address this. If she gets to teen years and still shows no respect for her parents that will be harder to deal with. I had to show my parents respect, and teachers as well, even if I didn't feel like it at the time. The kid sounds like she has a pretty good family that care about her, do things together, her mom even makes sure her lunches are healthy, helps her check her bag and cleans it out. What a lucky kid!
I do work with parents that are drug addicts, pawn their kids stuff and their houses are filthy. They smack their kids for making noise. They never attend school meetings and their kids are dirty and depressed. I think this kid will look back and be pretty good with the fact that her parents cared so much. Sounds like a pretty easy life compared to many. She has parents who care if she eats well, gets an education, has good character, special family activities, games, computer. Life could be a lot worse, she will notice this as she ages and sees other families. She will begin to appreciate hers.
She is still a kid, and kids who are lucky get taught not to lie, how to do their best at school and eat healthy. The unlucky ones have parents, or parent that doesn't give a crap, and is so wrapped up in themselves that they don't have a clue. IMO, of course.
I don't think getting nit picky over this is beneficial. No lying, no sneaking, get your homework done. If you follow these rules you get your freedoms to play games, computer time, friends time. Simple. That use to be parenting 101, I think parents need to stop complicating this and just follow through. It takes time. Over thinking this will end up in no follow though, confuses the kids.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
lol
