Teen suicide clusters, and family privacy. (accident, child, medicine, high school)
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And if it does, than I suspect state laws will reflect that change.
Until such a time expecting schools to violate privacy laws relating to minors and their families just so someone doesn't have to talk to their own children is ridiculous.
Until such a time expecting schools to violate privacy laws relating to minors and their families just so someone doesn't have to talk to their own children is ridiculous.
Moderator Cut.Not one person is suggesting violating privacy. Talk about missing the point.
Last edited by Jaded; 06-11-2013 at 02:49 PM..
Reason: personal attack
I never said I did. But as YOU pointed out there is NO CONCENSUS. Until there is a consensus from the experts we cannot violate the rights of victims and their families.
What about the rights of victims and their families to PRIVACY?
Seriously, we are talking (in most cases at least) to MINORS. We cannot release their information for almost anything without parental consent. And if those parents do not consent, for any reason, they have a fundamental right to PRIVACY.
Your desire to know their business does not supercede their rights. Want to talk to your kid about suicide, DON'T WAIT SOMEBODY IS DEAD.
I see this all the time, some parents think their "rights" to "know" something is more important than someone else's privacy. That isn't true. It isn't true about the special ed students in your kids class and it isn't true about the suicide of a classmate.
I think you and SomebodyNew are being deliberately obtuse right now. I know what has happened because my close friends still have high school-aged children, and they heard about it through them. I also know that many other parents had absolutely no idea, and ever more still don't.
There is no need to breach anybody's privacy. A robo call from the school need not even mention the fact that they all attended our high school. It can be phrased as occurring in the area. We have more than one high school in the town, and several private schools nearby.
I am disgusted at the cavalier attitude that this is a family problem, and could easily be stopped if the parents talked to their teenagers more. And, please, tell me the last time suicide was brought up at your dinner table.
I suggested to a group of mothers that they ask the mayor for help in getting a dialogue opened with the school and the parents. His own children are students at the high school. The mothers liked the idea, and have decided to pursue that route. I can only hope there are no more deaths in the meantime.
I am disgusted at the cavalier attitude that this is a family problem, and could easily be stopped if the parents talked to their teenagers more. And, please, tell me the last time suicide was brought up at your dinner table.
You mistake me greatly if you think my attitude is cavalier. I am horrified that THIS is the solution that is chosen by some families, seemingly the ONLY solution. It might be more interesting to ask YOU when the last time you discussed it was since that discussion is so problematic to occur unless and until you fear others have been doing it. I am not actually particularly against a notification. Of all the hills I might choose to die on, this one would no be it. I don't have a hell of a lot of faith in the rule of law. And if one family's grief is made worse by such a thing, I think that is really sad, but likely unavoidable. But I think your vehemence in insisting in its firm necessity rather proves my point that we have too much come to expect our schools to police our children's lives for us. Because after all, how many / how often do families have these conversations. When we SHOULD be having these conversations.
While, for our part, we are very open to topical discussions, we have discussions about suicide fairly infrequently. It takes its place along with consent, rape and other medium to low risk issues for our family. We speak about the things that are likely to increase the risk of those issue All The Time. Facebook and computer use comes with the understanding that we have access to their passwords. These conversations take place in the framework of their understanding that they have nothing to fear from us, only to gain.
Moderator Cut.
Last edited by Jaded; 06-11-2013 at 02:52 PM..
Reason: Argumentative.
And you are being ridiculous. Not one person is suggesting violating privacy. Talk about missing the point.
Yes, yes they are.
The OP thinks is there is a suicide of a student, a robo call from the school should go home to every home announcing there was a suicide.
If Johnny just died its crystal clear it was about him. That is the school, giving personal and IDENTIFIABLE information about a student to the public. It is a violation, particularly if Johnny's family has requested or even not given their permission for the school to do so.
Suicide's are frequently contested by family members, there maybe religious issues, or even just the basic desire to not have the entire school know their PRIVATE business. What the OP is advocating for VIOLATES their right to privacy.
No public school (a government agency) has the right to broadcast public information that is easily identifiable to any students, its basic FERPA and it includes anything, even that not expressly identifiable, not typically found in a school directory being disclosed to a third party. This would include cause of death.
Now there maybe individual state laws that require or allow dissemination of that information but not in my state.
I think you and SomebodyNew are being deliberately obtuse right now. I know what has happened because my close friends still have high school-aged children, and they heard about it through them. I also know that many other parents had absolutely no idea, and ever more still don't.
There is no need to breach anybody's privacy. A robo call from the school need not even mention the fact that they all attended our high school. It can be phrased as occurring in the area. We have more than one high school in the town, and several private schools nearby.
I am disgusted at the cavalier attitude that this is a family problem, and could easily be stopped if the parents talked to their teenagers more. And, please, tell me the last time suicide was brought up at your dinner table.
I suggested to a group of mothers that they ask the mayor for help in getting a dialogue opened with the school and the parents. His own children are students at the high school. The mothers liked the idea, and have decided to pursue that route. I can only hope there are no more deaths in the meantime.
Sounds like a good place to start.
Actually teen suicide was discussed at my dinner table numerous times as a close friend of my daughter attempted suicide several times and unfortunately, ultimately succeeded as a HS junior.
Guess what his high school did as "suicide prevention"? He was required to wear long sleeve shirts during school and at all school events so that other students would not be able to see the multiple scars on his wrists and arms. He was actually suspended by the school one hot day (as the school was not air conditioned) when he rolled up his sleeves. They hardly sympathetic to his situation.
I think you and SomebodyNew are being deliberately obtuse right now. I know what has happened because my close friends still have high school-aged children, and they heard about it through them. I also know that many other parents had absolutely no idea, and ever more still don't.
I am a teacher, a parent of teens, and live in an area that has suffered 12 suicides by train in the last 3 years.
I am not being deliberately obtuse, I am living the reality of this situation from more than just a parents view point.
Quote:
There is no need to breach anybody's privacy. A robo call from the school need not even mention the fact that they all attended our high school. It can be phrased as occurring in the area. We have more than one high school in the town, and several private schools nearby.
Then just assume there is a suicide at least one a year. Because in reality there probably is. Why you think you have a RIGHT to know anyone else's private family business is beyond ridiculous.
Once more, if there is a call right after Susie dies or even stops showing up to school, then Susie is easily identified. Schools should not give out that information if the family has requested PRIVACY.
Quote:
I am disgusted at the cavalier attitude that this is a family problem, and could easily be stopped if the parents talked to their teenagers more. And, please, tell me the last time suicide was brought up at your dinner table.
Suicide is certainly much more a family problem than a SCHOOLS problem. Who spends more time one on one with the child? Who should notice the "signs" first?
And I have two freshman in college, we talk about suicide fairly often. And when they were in high school even more often. Last time was when my daughter got her high pressure internship and we talked about what she was likely to face and coping mechanisms.
Quote:
I suggested to a group of mothers that they ask the mayor for help in getting a dialogue opened with the school and the parents. His own children are students at the high school. The mothers liked the idea, and have decided to pursue that route. I can only hope there are no more deaths in the meantime.
And shame on them and you if those families requested privacy during THEIR time of trial and grief and now get to deal with EVERYONE in town knowing their business.
And the mother of the victim was one of the people speaking out. That is absolutely HER right, and if the school wants to make that part of their program more power to them. But what the OP is advocating for is the school disseminating information even against the families wishes.
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