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More good advice! See KNEW it was out there!
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AND MOST of the difficulties 95% of them don't have to do with church attendance.
Glad it was helpful!
So, here's the thing. On a personal level, I disagree about having to have a family religion. But it doesn't matter what I think, because it's not my family - it's your beliefs, your husband's beliefs and your kids' beliefs that matter in this situation.
I don't want your thread to get derailed into benefits and drawbacks of having a family religion, as it seems that giving you grief about church attendance was just an example of problematic behavior you're experiencing with DD right now. It would be a different story if you had started the thread because she came to you and expressed grave concerns about the family religion. But it doesn't seem that this was the case. If she does have concerns now or down the road, I'd try listening with an open mind, but from what you've posted thus far, the concern right now is figuring out what is driving this behavior change towards you.
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 03-02-2012 at 04:43 PM..
Sadly, when I was 15, if my Mom suggested we do something together, I would have also been very negative. She created a situation where I could not stand her, being with her ever, was the last thing I wanted to do. It looks like that is where your relationship is now with your daughter. This is not a simple fix, over some mini drama. This looks like major problems.
I would not go with planning a party with her, all you will do is fight, she will say "blue" and you will say, "red". You will feel like a martyr, because she won't go along with this lovely party you are planning for "her".
If you want her to have a party, truly let her plan it.
As for fixing this problem, it is not a lost cause...but maybe family counseling would help.
Your daughter could probably use individual counseling as well. Issues regarding adoption can arise during adolescence, and your daughter might feel most comfortable discussing them with a mental health professional. (Not that this is the only reason counseling may be helpful...)
Last edited by forum_browser; 03-02-2012 at 05:42 PM..
It encourages thinking. What good is faith that is foisted on you? Even Jesus said it. God no longer wants your behavior or your obedience. He wants your whole heart.
My son said to my husband the other day that we are atheists. DH said oh you are an atheist too? DS said don't you get your religion from your parents. DH said not in this family. If that were the case, where would DD be? Not in this family? She is a believer. DS is now back on the fence where he feels comfortable.
Anyway different strokes for different folks.
Do you fail to teach your kids a language because you don't want to foist one on them but let them choose their own?
It's like anything, you teach your children your beliefs but you know when they become adults, they may choose something else but you give them a foundation. Just like language, if they never grow up knowing any language, they're not going to know how to choose.
Parents should teach their kids all kinds of things. You can and should bring them on family vacations, the parents might prefer camping, later the child may grow up and want to stay in 4 star hotels but so what? Or the parents who take their children hiking with them may see the child grow up and prefer something else.
I am honestly SHOCKED that so many people think parents should let their kids pick their own religion! What???
I have to say that my home is not a free for all either. However, my adult child (18) and my almost adult child (15) cannot be forced to believe in the family religion (we are Jewish).
There are times I will require their presence in the synagogue. Their younger brother will become Bar Mitzvah next month and they both need to come to the synagogue on that day. However, I cannot force them to be believers. They are of the age that they either believe, or not.
My middle son (15) has told me that he does not believe in G-d. I am disappointed that he does not believe. However, I just do not see a way that I can force him to believe something. At some point it is their choice to believe in the family religion, or not. I require his presence in the synagogue at certain times, but not weekly. He enjoys the cultural aspect of being Jewish (at least he says he does) and I do not have to force him to join us for holiday dinners, or celebrations.
I do not think that a parent should abdicate responsibility for a young child's religious education. However, when the child is old enough to make up their own mind about religion then they have decided.
You can force a child to sit in a church but you cannot force that child to believe something just because you believe it.
Teens can be that way. Great kids one minute, snotty brats the next.
Of course they can, and I agree with that, I have a few of those, but only mothers who are insecure and dominant talk smack about their kids to this point. The dominant part is that when she defends herself it's with her daughters good points as if she is the one responsible for the good but takes no responsibility for the bad. She only acknowledges the good points to defend herself. That's a clue of dominant behavior to me, sorry, and of course this is IMO> but, it seems pretty obvious to me that she is a very dominant female and she is not on here for advice or opinions from other people, she is on her for team back up. She wants back up for what she has already decided.
It's pretty clear to me, as this whole thread unravels, that the mom has sever control issues, from the son who is liked for being easy to control, to a husband who is obviously just not trying to make waves around his wife and a daughter who just wants to stay away from her and is on to her control and doesn't want to abide like the rest. This is the problem that should be dealt with. Moms control issues. Nothing else will make all of this go away. Her family revolves around her and if they don't she throws a fit is what I'm getting. That is what I see, IMO.
Guiding a child into a safe healthy place where they can explore who they are is normal parenting, which most of us thought she was doing at first. That is why we suggested healthy outlooks and gave normal advice.
BUT being upset to this point and looking for back pats, talking this kind of personal smack about your kid because she doesn't like the family church Sunday you're into, says the f word sometimes or doesn't want to miss a game, is odd, unless of course she is pissing you off because you are dominant and see her as the defiant one.
She could enforce rules for her daughters safety and well being or she could enforce rules so that the home is a "happy place" which seems to me means "when mom is happy, it's a happy place, for all involved!" That is just odd IMO and an off balanced family. Maybe that is why she is worried about the brother whom bore the brunt is leaving. Eyes are now on her...........
What mother wants a high five for calling her kid names? I no longer think she wants advice, she wants back up for un-natural behavior and she is doing her best to get it. Well, she won't be getting it from me, her daughter seems normal, pretty well adjusted and typical of her age. Yes, most all teenagers have good and bad days, they explore other interests than their parents. The mom, now she sounds off. I have advice for her but I know she isn't looking for it. I don't have a back pat, sorry.
And yes, counseling would be a normal search for a normal parent who is normally worried about a daughter who is heading for trouble, especially an adopted child as pointed out above, BUT I doubt she wants to open up a bag of worms and her daughter sounds far from a troubled teen.
I have a feeling she knows what they'd say, and it wouldn't be in her favor. So, I gather that idea is out.
I have to say that my home is not a free for all either. However, my adult child (18) and my almost adult child (15) cannot be forced to believe in the family religion (we are Jewish).
There are times I will require their presence in the synagogue. Their younger brother will become Bar Mitzvah next month and they both need to come to the synagogue on that day. However, I cannot force them to be believers. They are of the age that they either believe, or not.
My middle son (15) has told me that he does not believe in G-d. I am disappointed that he does not believe. However, I just do not see a way that I can force him to believe something. At some point it is their choice to believe in the family religion, or not. I require his presence in the synagogue at certain times, but not weekly. He enjoys the cultural aspect of being Jewish (at least he says he does) and I do not have to force him to join us for holiday dinners, or celebrations.
I do not think that a parent should abdicate responsibility for a young child's religious education. However, when the child is old enough to make up their own mind about religion then they have decided.
You can force a child to sit in a church but you cannot force that child to believe something just because you believe it.
See, you know this, most do. Why doesn't she get it? Something is off. I think she just wants to force her daughter to sit in church for other reasons.
Do you fail to teach your kids a language because you don't want to foist one on them but let them choose their own?
It's like anything, you teach your children your beliefs but you know when they become adults, they may choose something else but you give them a foundation. Just like language, if they never grow up knowing any language, they're not going to know how to choose.
Parents should teach their kids all kinds of things. You can and should bring them on family vacations, the parents might prefer camping, later the child may grow up and want to stay in 4 star hotels but so what? Or the parents who take their children hiking with them may see the child grow up and prefer something else.
I agree with all of this. Religion is NOT the problem BTW. She is like this with many topics that require the subjugation of the self to the whole.
And everyone is forgetting the fact that this is not my free spirit child. This is the conformist. I honestly think that if we didn't belong to a church, she's complain that we were weird because all of her ?other friends have religions" And they do. Family religions.
Big on family vacations myself. So much can be learned by them!
Sounds to me you have some real disdain for your daughter. My sense is that she knows you feel differently about her as a person than your son, it's pretty clear to see late in this thread. The way you describe her it's obvious that although you love her you don't really like her. It seems her personality isn't one you are proud of and she probably gets that.
You seem very active in church as is your son, you help the needy, feel like you contribute to society and strive to be humble and you like that about yourself and your son.
You describe your daughter as a "mean girl", shallow, anti intellectual whom only cares about her clothes and the mall, whom is a semi slutty, food pantry working lazy ass.
You can try and change her so that you like her more but I have a feeling that you are going to have to accept that not all your kids got the "do-gooder" gene. Not all of your kids will be someone you like, or would even pick for a friend.
I don't know how you can see clearly to discipline her for the actual things she is doing wrong when you seem to be disciplining her to just be whom you want her to, trying to change who she actually is. A kid you'll be proud of or and like. I'm not sure that will be possible, don't be to disappointed if it doesn't turn out for you.
She probably has some good qualities that are hard for a personality like you to see. They aren't the kind you might look for but I'm sure they are there.
Like I said in my first post, she sounds like she is motivated. Cheerleading is difficult to do, takes decent grades to stay in and a lot of practice. You have to make a team effort just like any other sport. It just sounds like to me you don't like her, or the kind of person she is. You can probably get her to stop cussing in front of you but getting her to care about the same things you do will prove more difficult IMO.
It's evident she doesn't quite fit into the pack.
You forget that I am the one who suggested cheer to her. She did not want to do it because she didn't "know any of the other girls" which would be about right because we are new here. I was a cheerleader and so was my mom, my aunt, mu sisters and cousins.
Another poster was making it sound as though maybe my daughter had more intellectual or free thinking things that she wanted to explore.
That is patently not the case. There is no "pack" here to fit into.
We are not a cult. There is no perfect person here.
There is one person who manages to act polite and out going enough outside of the home. Inside, it's another story.
There are people who identify with children no matter what. I think some of them were abused as children.
I won't lie, being around her is not always pleasant.
It is in fact, mostly UNPLEASANT! She can choose ro act towards me the way that she acts towards teachers, coaches, neighbors, and yes; people at church.
Sometimes I can't stand her duplicity and manipulation.
Today was a good day. I have my husband realizing the tole this is taking on me, and that he largely escapes it.
We went shopping for the Sweet Sixteen Party. I let her chose her colors and her invitations. Later we tested different "virgin" Champagne punches and had fun.
But she has been told three things 1. If "F" or "FriKen" is used. She misses the next game.
2 If chores are not done, no $ and no sleep overs. 3. We are in charge not she.
I also reinforced that there is nothing that she can not discuss with me. But perseveratory complaining and griping about the same things and she will be off Cheer for the rest of the year. We have heard it, but we don't want to hear it again.
After this was read in a calm voice, she spontaneously hugged me and said "I love you mom."
Actually, not only CAN I force her to sit in Church, I do. I can't make her have faith at this point, but I know that being there, waking up and going through a family ritual each Sunday is important to me and the her dad.
We have made clear that we do not want to hear negatives about this. She is doing it for us.agine that ? Expecting a fifteen year old to do something for her parents?
That seems tantamount to child abuse to some of you!
She was also told that she can not make fum of the clothes of kids who are less fortunate than she. That is not an OK value to most people. It's nasty, cruel and elitist.
She fully understands the consequences for this behavior, and should it come up again, we will act swiftly.
I think that many narcissistic personality disorders, begin in the teen years with this sort of testing. It may be normal, but these are not personality traits that I want to reward. Malignant narcissism is a huge problem in our society. I think if a parent does not give in to a self centered demanding child, but rewards good behavior, thee is a good chance that the life long malady of malignant narcissism can be avoided.
Sincere thanks to those of you who gave advice, but did not attack me. Your advice was valuable!
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I think she just wants to force her daughter to sit in church for other reasons.
