Disrespectful behavior on the part of 15 year old daughter - your thoughts? (wife, chores)

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by hypocore

There are two things she needs as a teenage girl whose body is constantly in flux and brain is running marathons all over the place.

1. A soft place to land.

2. A passion.

Her soft place to land should be at home with her family. This is where she can vent her frustrations, take out her anger, cry her tears and let it all out that she has been holding in all day in the outside world. Her soft place to land is one where she shouldn't be rejected nor where she has no voice. Her soft place to land allows her time and space to turn her moods on a whim and yet know she still belongs and has a place to fit.

Her passion is something that she focuses on that keeps her interested in life. It is something that she devotes time to willingly and frequently. Her passion should be something that brings her some type of fulfillment.

My guess is that she is using her soft place to land in a way that you do not like. The good news is she is definitely using it and not acting that way outside of home. So celebrate that.

I also guess that she is trying to find a passion in fashion and not church and you don't like that either. One thing you cannot do is force a passion on someone.

So, with that in mind, let's start with the soft place to land. Decide which thing you want most to change and works towards a behavior change there. I believe the swearing is what is bothering you the most as you consider it offensive while she considers it asserting her independence. Here you need to compromise by allowing her to assert with words that still fit the bill but that you don't find offensive. Every time she says the F word, toss out the word you want her to use. Fudge or Flippin. She says the F word, or fricken/friggen and you simply say FUDGE-FLIPPIN. The more you reply that to her and use it yourself (dramatically and frequently perhaps) the more she will associate it with the feeling she wants to express and will begin to use it without realizing it. This is exactly how so many catch phrases come about. Certain people use it excessively and suddenly lots of people are using it. So use this human reaction to switch out the words. Problem solved pretty easily.

Then you move onto the next issue you wish to alter.

In regards to the fashion wants/demands. This one is really so easy to work with. Hit up the consignment stores, thrift stores, goodwill, Ross, TJ Maxx etc and have a blast digging for fabulous deals. She can wear the labels she wants, whatever the reason, and it won't deplete your bank account. If she doesn't want to go with you then take her and maybe a friend or two. Give her $20 and challenge her to find a fantastic deal while you do the same. See who can find the best deal.

Then buy her some fabric and sewing stuff and set her on a path to create her own. She might just surprise you.

Teens, especially girls, want to be their own boss while at the same time having a hug when they need it. It's a balancing act.

Church to me is a completely separate issue and needs a different approach. Step outside your comfort zone and try to have a grown up talk with her about it.
-Does she no longer believe? Teens quite often need to expand beliefs and maybe she needs to attend church with a friend of a different denomination to see how it feels to her.
-Does she not feel safe at your church? Someone may be giving her a hard time there or making her feel uncomfortable.
-Is her school connected to the church as well? Maybe she is on overload with people she doesn't really enjoy spending time with or is embarrassed by, including her family. (Nothing factual, just the way a teen thinks) Perhaps a different service time for her would help. Saturday night instead of Sunday morning or earlier in the morning instead of later?


I imagine you will find that if you change your expectations just a little you will find the frustrations have eased up tremendously. Let her own her own issues and you help guide her instead of leading her.

There are a couple of wonderful books that help understand the way some teens are and I so wish I could remember the names of them. It would be worth some time invested at the library finding some to peruse.

I've raised two girls to adulthood and have a 14 yr old right now, so been there done that and still am.

You have raised some interesting questions without accusing me of not loving her, or favoring her brother.

I actually have SO MUCH MORE IN COMMON WITH HER! We were are both studious and girly girls. She is a cheerleader, so was I. We like to get our nails done, shop, enjoy crafts, decorating, baking and going to the gym (because of the baking)

If you can think of the books, please pass them on.

She DOES go to a Christian School but not my denomination, NOT affiliated with my church. She has even told me that she "really appreciates being a Lutheran" because we are not a church full of NOs"

When I push her to do things 9 times out of 10, she A, Does them and B winds up LIKING or LOVING them! She would even admit that!

She didn't WANT to try out for cheer because she "didn't know anyone" (how could she? we just moved here?) I encouraged it because she studied gymnastics and dance at camp, and in lessons.
Now she LOVES CHEER! I had taught her to do a split and cartwheel at five (yes I still can) and she loved it. Now she is head cheerleader!

Something we don't share is my love of reading. She is more math and science so I don't force her. I love the library, but I do that with my son and I'm OK with that.

[beachmel]

Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain

I've been trying to think of something practical to tell you, OP. On the one hand, it's clear to me that you are looking for support for what you are going through (which sounds incredibly frustrating and hurtful) and on the other hand, it's hard to know what DD is experiencing that led to this shift in her behavior towards you.

I'm going to suggest something that may or may not work: have a "come to Jesus" meeting (figuratively speaking) with her about what's going on with her, especially as it relates to your relationship. The caveat is that for the duration of the conversation, you will have to have the patience of a saint, use lots of open-ended questions, not rise to the bait when she gets huffy, and go into it with a clear sense of what you want to communicate to her and truly listen non-defensively. My thought is, it might break the power struggle. It strikes me that in addition to your frustration with her behavior that you are also hurt by it (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I might consider explaining that you really dislike constantly battling and being angry at each other and would like to have a frank discussion about it. Utilize "I need time to think about that" liberally if she brings up issues you have a strong negative reaction to (as opposed to arguing with her in that moment) and validate whatever kernels of truth you can find (emotions are always valid, having a thought is valid even if you disagree with the content of the thought - don't agree with things you don't agree with, but you can validate that you understand how SHE is seeing things, if you do).

The idea is that for the duration of the conversation, really try to get into her shoes. If it works, you will have more information to work with for a second conversation and perhaps more ways to troubleshoot the current behaviors. I hope I'm explaining this in a way that makes sense - I am not suggesting you cave on your rules, but I am suggesting for that one conversation you do make it all about her to see if you can break the deadlock and make some progress on getting some respectful behavior from her.

This is such good advice. The hard part about dealing with a relationship on the rocks is this.....Ask a question and then wait for an answer, carefully guarding your facial expressions. One of the things that also worked in my family, a time or two when emotions were riding high was E-MAILS, a note, or a loving card. There are some awesome, sentimental cards that you could cry over (as you search for the perfect one) and you might not have to write hardly anything in it. The point is...get the conversation going!

On the woo hoo cheerleading thing....please don't think I'm dissing on cheerleaders, because I'm not. I've just watched so many teens who are "so cool" in high school (way cooler and smarter than their parents), because they're cheerleaders, football/ basketball/baseball/soccer/track stars, and then...... they graduate! All of a sudden, no one CARES how cool you were back in your high school or what you starred in. You're nothing more than a little fish in a big pond, and if you don't have your family and/or people you've treated well, to have your back, it's a rough ocean with strong currents and no oars.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by sheena12

I suggest it too Jasper. A movie, lunch, all kinds of things. And she always huffs and acts reluntant as though I'm doing her a favor or has a reason why she can't go. I had also thought thought that the Sweet 16 would offer a lot of bonding opportunities, of the girly girl variety (I am also a girly girl) between shopping for dresses,choosing a cake and decorating.

She is a lovely person underneath all of this. Good sense of humor, really witty, ebullient - but now only around outsiders. Not for me. I miss that sill part of her.Actually she argues with her father and brother the same way . With her brother. With her brother it's among peers, but she is very nasty. I don't involve myself. Her father takes things I wouldn't. Mostly because he is admittedly too lazy to fight.

I agree

Aw, she is probably just holding out, she feels distant. Just keep doing what you are doing, skip fighting, lay down rules you want enforced and let it go. Hopefully if you keep asking her for some private time and let her know you are trying to connect she'll come around. Beyond that I think you just needed a rant. We all need a rant sometimes. It's better to rant on here about how you feel about her than in front of her or the family.
She probably just has "black sheep syndrome" right now. Her brother is shinning, she isn't making you happy with her decisions so she is going to her team, friends and skipping family time. She is close to being an adult, as long as you are supportive, which it seems you are trying to be, then it should come around.

As far as the bday party, it seems to me she is put off by your show of affection through the sweet sixteen because she knows you don't really agree with her enthusiasm about those things, she want's genuine thrill, not faking it for her. Sometimes that just isn't possible when you aren't the same kind of person. Girly or not you clearly feel she is materialistic to a fault.
Just give her the money, (she is lucky to get anything) even if you are worried that later she says you didn't care enough to give her the party, which she might. Tell her you will go by her actions and verbal hints instead of trying to figure out the deep meaning behind it. Nobody can figure out people without a clue. That way maybe she'll be honest in the future about her needs and wants from you. Regardless if all the girls have a sweet 16 or not, maybe she is trying to convey she really isn't one of the many, she can go without it. Who knows.
I'll tell you, my teens opted for money instead of parties a long time ago. I give the amount I would've spent on the party. We have worked it out to a set amount that I give every year. I just hang with them and get excited with them about what they are saving for or buying with the money. I sort of think it's wise, I mean bday parties when you're older are like huge expensive weddings, IMO, if you want it great, if you don't want it then it's usually just blowing money you could've used, the special part is still there regardless. It's the day you've brought them into the world. That can be celebrated without anything, just a kind word. Glad you're here.
This should be something you will appreciate more than throwing a materialistic party I would think.

At least you aren't openly ranting about her within ear shot, or to a sibling that later conveys it to her. That is too much like high school and she is already dealing with that she doesn't need a family atmosphere to match. Drama should stop at the front door of ones home.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by sheena12

You have raised some interesting questions without accusing me of not loving her, or favoring her brother.

I actually have SO MUCH MORE IN COMMON WITH HER! We were are both studious and girly girls. She is a cheerleader, so was I. We like to get our nails done, shop, enjoy crafts, decorating, baking and going to the gym (because of the baking)

If you can think of the books, please pass them on.

She DOES go to a Christian School but not my denomination, NOT affiliated with my church. She has even told me that she "really appreciates being a Lutheran" because we are not a church full of NOs"

When I push her to do things 9 times out of 10, she A, Does them and B winds up LIKING or LOVING them! She would even admit that!

She didn't WANT to try out for cheer because she "didn't know anyone" (how could she? we just moved here?) I encouraged it because she studied gymnastics and dance at camp, and in lessons.
Now she LOVES CHEER! I had taught her to do a split and cartwheel at five (yes I still can) and she loved it. Now she is head cheerleader!

Something we don't share is my love of reading. She is more math and science so I don't force her. I love the library, but I do that with my son and I'm OK with that.

This is interesting to me. I'm thinking you have helped her with a lot of direction? In the name of, she'll like it later?
Teenager time is when we loose some of that ability to steer their ship, depending on their personality. Maybe this is part of the issue?
If it is you might have to go ahead and let her suffer a bit. Let her go ahead and steer the ship even if it's headed for an ice burg. Just an idea from what you are saying.
It's hard because on one post she sounds like a decent kid, then on another she sounds horrid. I can't seem to get a clear picture of the issues or how you feel about her. Maybe this is just me? IDK.

[somebodynew]

Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain

I've been trying to think of something practical to tell you, OP. On the one hand, it's clear to me that you are looking for support for what you are going through (which sounds incredibly frustrating and hurtful) and on the other hand, it's hard to know what DD is experiencing that led to this shift in her behavior towards you.

I'm going to suggest something that may or may not work: have a "come to Jesus" meeting (figuratively speaking) with her about what's going on with her, especially as it relates to your relationship. The caveat is that for the duration of the conversation, you will have to have the patience of a saint, use lots of open-ended questions, not rise to the bait when she gets huffy, and go into it with a clear sense of what you want to communicate to her and truly listen non-defensively. My thought is, it might break the power struggle. It strikes me that in addition to your frustration with her behavior that you are also hurt by it (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I might consider explaining that you really dislike constantly battling and being angry at each other and would like to have a frank discussion about it. Utilize "I need time to think about that" liberally if she brings up issues you have a strong negative reaction to (as opposed to arguing with her in that moment) and validate whatever kernels of truth you can find (emotions are always valid, having a thought is valid even if you disagree with the content of the thought - don't agree with things you don't agree with, but you can validate that you understand how SHE is seeing things, if you do).

The idea is that for the duration of the conversation, really try to get into her shoes. If it works, you will have more information to work with for a second conversation and perhaps more ways to troubleshoot the current behaviors. I hope I'm explaining this in a way that makes sense - I am not suggesting you cave on your rules, but I am suggesting for that one conversation you do make it all about her to see if you can break the deadlock and make some progress on getting some respectful behavior from her.

This is the best advice of the thread.

[DewDropInn]

Sheena: Your daughter is Asian? Does she have any Asian friends? Has she been the only Asian in her school and among her group of friends?

EWAG hit the nail on the head with the "Come to Jesus Meeting". And you may need to also have an honest discussion with her about her feelings on being an Asian in a very WASP community. I'm beginning to think that may have a lot to do with her rebellion.

[Momma_bear]

Originally Posted by PoppySead

It's hard because on one post she sounds like a decent kid, then on another she sounds horrid.

Teens can be that way. Great kids one minute, snotty brats the next.

[theoldnorthstate]

my daughter and i had 'mother daughter weekends' where we went away just the two of us to do things together that we both wanted to do. no phones no boys just us.

it helped as we went through rough patches. and she still remembers them.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain

I've been trying to think of something practical to tell you, OP. On the one hand, it's clear to me that you are looking for support for what you are going through (which sounds incredibly frustrating and hurtful) and on the other hand, it's hard to know what DD is experiencing that led to this shift in her behavior towards you.

I'm going to suggest something that may or may not work: have a "come to Jesus" meeting (figuratively speaking) with her about what's going on with her, especially as it relates to your relationship. The caveat is that for the duration of the conversation, you will have to have the patience of a saint, use lots of open-ended questions, not rise to the bait when she gets huffy, and go into it with a clear sense of what you want to communicate to her and truly listen non-defensively. My thought is, it might break the power struggle. It strikes me that in addition to your frustration with her behavior that you are also hurt by it (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I might consider explaining that you really dislike constantly battling and being angry at each other and would like to have a frank discussion about it. Utilize "I need time to think about that" liberally if she brings up issues you have a strong negative reaction to (as opposed to arguing with her in that moment) and validate whatever kernels of truth you can find (emotions are always valid, having a thought is valid even if you disagree with the content of the thought - don't agree with things you don't agree with, but you can validate that you understand how SHE is seeing things, if you do).

The idea is that for the duration of the conversation, really try to get into her shoes. If it works, you will have more information to work with for a second conversation and perhaps more ways to troubleshoot the current behaviors. I hope I'm explaining this in a way that makes sense - I am not suggesting you cave on your rules, but I am suggesting for that one conversation you do make it all about her to see if you can break the deadlock and make some progress on getting some respectful behavior from her.

More good advice! See KNEW it was out there!

There are some people who are obviously really different types of parents than I am.

I will be the first to PROUDLY admit that I am not from the "What ever you want dear, what ever makes you happy, F word, hey it's OK everyone's saying it, mom comes LAST" school of parenting.

I AM an understanding, and hardworking parent who actively PARENTS.

My home is not a free for all.

We do not let kids chose their own religion - but I am NOT a Fundamentalist. We have a Pentecostal brother in law who raises his kits with fear - a bible in one hand a belt in the other.

WE ARE NOT THEM! WE ARE NOT the Duggers, forcing their daughters to be little mother's and wearing ridiculous skirts that are down to their ankles. But I still say that WHILE WE ARE FOOTING THE BILLS< WE CALL THE SHOTS.

I am honestly SHOCKED that so many people think parents should let their kids pick their own religion! What???

I am a moderate Democrat in terms of politics.

When I look at the children of Politicians who I admire, their children, the one's with the successful families and high achieving kids, had a family religion.

What ever you think of the Clinton's, Chelsea Clinton is a lovely young woman, who was raised in the United Methodist Church, attended regularly, and attended Sidwell Friend Academy, for the same reason that I send my children to their Christian Schools - bad city schools.
What a gem Chelsea is! She went on to the prestigious Stanford University, and when she was married, it was important to Chelsea that a Methodist minister be present at her interfaith ceremony.
The marriage did not go well, and I am glad that Chelsea enjoys a great relationship with her mom - and has faith.

The Bush daughters were also raised in Church. Although their dad's politics is not mine, they are two lovely, responsible young women.

Having a faith based HOME is not oppressive - it's enriching!

AND MOST of the difficulties 95% of them don't have to do with church attendance.

[somebodynew]

Originally Posted by sheena12

I am honestly SHOCKED that so many people think parents should let their kids pick their own religion! What???

It encourages thinking. What good is faith that is foisted on you? Even Jesus said it. God no longer wants your behavior or your obedience. He wants your whole heart.

My son said to my husband the other day that we are atheists. DH said oh you are an atheist too? DS said don't you get your religion from your parents. DH said not in this family. If that were the case, where would DD be? Not in this family? She is a believer. DS is now back on the fence where he feels comfortable.

Anyway different strokes for different folks.