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I realize these posts are old, but I have to call baloney on some of what is said here. I can't believe this poster has kids and if they never disciplined in ANY form, which is what I'm gathering, they either have no kids and are lying or they hit the kid jackpot. Most people don't have kids that never do things worthy of discipline.
I have raised four children to be successful, respectful, law abiding, responsible adults. Without ever laying a finger on them.
Again that you think hitting someone is the way you discipline them shows how little you know about discipline.
You know as much about me as I know about you and I don't know where you got that I "spank" my daughter All the time for everything. She'S not one that spanking works very well anyway. You talk about positive discipline and then call spanking teaching kids a pavlovian response. Positive discipline does the same thing because kids end up thinking they get a reward for every good behavior they do. I do agree that they do love to fill up ticket jars and such to earn rewards. My mother was a big believer of making the punishment fit the crime. When I had my daughter she taught me that if I get angry about something she did wrong, to walk away and isolate myself for 5 minutes and then think about an appropriate punishment. It may not always be a smack to the Butt. She also advised me to never make my daughter afraid to sleep in her own house. I work with children everyday, and I don't really care what someone's preferred method of discipline is as long as it's not over the top. What makes me angry is parents who do absolutely nothing and oftentimes blame other kids and adults for their child's behavior. Those kids do not learn accountability in any way and that is just lazy parenting, in my opinion. That is as bad to me as spanking must be to you.
You know as much about me as I know about you and I don't know where you got that I "spank" my daughter All the time for everything.
What are you talking about? Where did I say that?
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She'S not one that spanking works very well anyway.
Then dont hit her
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You talk about positive discipline and then call spanking teaching kids a pavlovian response.
Again what are you talking about? Who brought up pavlov? What positive discipline was mentioned?
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Positive discipline does the same thing because kids end up thinking they get a reward for every good behavior they do.
Again you really need to educate yourself about discipline. No on is talking about bribing as a discipline technique.
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I do agree that they do love to fill up ticket jars and such to earn rewards.
Bizarre. Who brought up ticket jars? Not something we ever did.
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My mother was a big believer of making the punishment fit the crime. When I had my daughter she taught me that if I get angry about something she did wrong, to walk away and isolate myself for 5 minutes and then think about an appropriate punishment. It may not always be a smack to the Butt. She also advised me to never make my daughter afraid to sleep in her own house.
This is getting weirder. What does hitting your child have to do with being afraid to sleep?
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I work with children everyday, and I don't really care what someone's preferred method of discipline is as long as it's not over the top. What makes me angry is parents who do absolutely nothing and oftentimes blame other kids and adults for their child's behavior. Those kids do not learn accountability in any way and that is just lazy parenting, in my opinion. That is as bad to me as spanking must be to you.
Blame others? You ate hitting your child and blaming it on her behavior!
And given the near incoherence of this post I doubt you will understand the false dichotomy you are setting up. I am a strong disciplinarian without hitting anyone. The fact that you think hitting is discipline does not remotely mean you are a strong disciplinarian. If anything hitting is just as lazy as bribing or ignoring behavior as it coerces a behavior out of pain, fear, or shock rather than true learning.
You know as much about me as I know about you and I don't know where you got that I "spank" my daughter All the time for everything. She'S not one that spanking works very well anyway. You talk about positive discipline and then call spanking teaching kids a pavlovian response. Positive discipline does the same thing because kids end up thinking they get a reward for every good behavior they do. I do agree that they do love to fill up ticket jars and such to earn rewards. My mother was a big believer of making the punishment fit the crime. When I had my daughter she taught me that if I get angry about something she did wrong, to walk away and isolate myself for 5 minutes and then think about an appropriate punishment. It may not always be a smack to the Butt. She also advised me to never make my daughter afraid to sleep in her own house. I work with children everyday, and I don't really care what someone's preferred method of discipline is as long as it's not over the top. What makes me angry is parents who do absolutely nothing and oftentimes blame other kids and adults for their child's behavior. Those kids do not learn accountability in any way and that is just lazy parenting, in my opinion. That is as bad to me as spanking must be to you.
No, positive discipline is NOT about giving out rewards for every good behavior. In fact, positive discipline doesn't have to have many material rewards at all.
Positive discipline involves paying attention to good behavior and spending time with your children when they are doing the right thing. It involves understanding and acknowledging your children's feelings. It also involves teaching them why certain behaviors are unacceptable.
I have raised four children to be successful, respectful, law abiding, responsible adults. Without ever laying a finger on them.
Again that you think hitting someone is the way you discipline them shows how little you know about discipline.
The thing that I think about is that describing "discipline" in a word or sentence just can't be describing a decent, comprehensive approach to discipline. I can't say I use
spanking
time outs
stern lectures
Whatever ...
and be describing discipline though I have done all three things in the past. (Wasn't really pleased with myself when I spanked that confused little butt. Ok the butt wasn't confused.) The components of discipline are several and they are not isolated from other things like real self esteem (I shudder thinking of all the folk who will misread that as vacant praise) to learning problem solving skills, firm consistent limit setting, removing obstacles to and building support for cooperation. They all go hand in hand, and one without the others simply are not going to be as effective. When I hear discipline equated to I don't want you to do that, smack. Or I don't want you to do that, time out. Or I don't want you to do that, privileged strip, I groan.
One might try, without success, to go into some highlights of a decent discipline strategy on such a short form as a forum post. (I tired. It was funny.) But just the topic of limit setting has been gone into at length in any number of books. And that does not even touch on how that relates to self esteem, and how and WHY to avoid the short sighted vision of esteem as the receipt of empty praise. What is self esteem and how does it make kids feel competent to solve problems. How and why does being able to solve problems prevent the behaviors we are trying to decrease. How and why our own punitive, or controlling or micromanaging or permissive behaviors have actually fostered the behavior we are trying to eradicate. How an effective positive disciple STRATEGY actually makes things EASIER in the long run by investing in self discipline. How our assumptions that kids WILL and WANT to misbehave are misguided.
People who think of punishment as discipline will wave their hands dismissively and say Oh Yea, I do all that too. But if you still have to arbitrarily punish your kids, you are missing some critical link(s). (Do not mistake me to mean that you do not enforce limits. I am not advocating being permissive by ANY means. Ask my kids. They will tell you I am a hard ass. But I don't need to mete out arbitrary punishments since life offers all the consequences that they need.)
I guess it hurts people's feelings that maybe someone might have some ideas out there that they don't have. Rather than go learn some new ideas they would rather tout oh you are one of those parents whose kids are too precious to "discipline" aka punish. Or you have easy kids. I guess that is the way to soothe said feelings. Personally I am glad I did not sooth my feelings in that way when I got my parenting assumptions challenged on a board such as this. (In a really aggressive way. I am lucky for the old days of unmoderated boards. I don't think I would have listened to several really helpful bits of advice without the proverbial dope slap. Ouch!) Off to the library, book store, internet. There was a lot of crap there. And a lot of good stuff as well. For us the result was a transformation over the course of probably a year from an ill behaved pain in the ass kid to a kid who knows what is expected of him, actually strives to meet expectations, is remorseful and seeks to remedy mistakes (aka misbehavior), feels comfortable and confident in his ability to meet expectations rather than fearful of the next time he is going to screw up. etcetera.
So anyway side note, my thanks to the aggressive parents of the long dead misc.kids.
Positive discipline does the same thing because kids end up thinking they get a reward for every good behavior they do.
Google positive discipline. Because that so is not even close to it. I don't even know where this comes from. I have never even heard of reward as part of positive discipline strategies. As far from punishment is reward from what I have read in the "positive discipline" categories. For the same reason.
No, positive discipline is NOT about giving out rewards for every good behavior. In fact, positive discipline doesn't have to have many material rewards at all.
Positive discipline involves paying attention to good behavior and spending time with your children when they are doing the right thing. It involves understanding and acknowledging your children's feelings. It also involves teaching them why certain behaviors are unacceptable.
It involves non damaging limit setting which needn't be mistaken for wishy washy limit setting. I went at length to what else it involves in another reply. While we are sending links no one will ever read.
Positive discipline involves paying attention to good behavior
One thing more. One idea I came across is calling this descriptive appreciation (a very good replacement or refinement of praise). It is so helpful when you take the trash out without complaining. One less stress I have to deal with. You came right home and did your homework! Now you can spend the rest of the afternoon playing....
So I read the first link and I mostly agree. I think everyone needs to know that every choice they make hes either negative or positive consequences. That's an important life lesson, but at the risk of looking like an idiot because I'm not 100% sure I get where you are coming from. I guess I need you to give me an example of what you would do in certain situations; such as, you take your kid to the park and he/she pushes a kid down the slide because they are in a hurry and don't want to wait their turn. Or what if they are a bit older and do something like cut in line or speak disrespectfully to a grownup? I don't spank for things like that (well, maybe for being rude to an elder but them apologizing can work well too).
Setting limits, your 2nd link, pretty much describes what my mom always calls "making the punishment fit the crime" and she was ruthless, especially if I was grounded. I might actually buy that to learn more ideas since my daughter responds better to that form of discipline.
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