on average, do kids grow up with more behavior issues less respectful to others in the DC area compared to other places? (Episcopal, paint)

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

Actualy we usually manage to keep the controversies within bounds in this forum, more so than on CD in general, which in itself is not as wild and wooly a place as the rest of the net.

Some things that help are keeping to the topic at hand (yes topics naturally wander, but the worst nastiness is usually accompanied by fast and dramatic shifts of topic) and assuming good faith. Also keeping a reasonable degree of distance about others personal lives.

A good rule of thumb would be - if you find yourself about to post a line by line response to someone else - ask yourself if the previous post was really an argument, or just an aside, making conversation, whatever.

Also a good thing to do is to review ones own posts and check if they are all parts of arguments.

Good rules. I hope everyone follows, including the makers of the said rules.

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by Alicia Bradley

I agree with all of the above. I'd also agree that the NoVA section of City-Data has possibly the most considerate atmosphere of any (virtual) place I've ever spent significant time online (including other C-D subforums!). Maybe partly because we tend to skew older?

Partly because we tend to skew older and partly because we have two really great mods who have been here for a long time.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

I brought up abortion, because among Christians of various types, there is a "spectrum" of views on when abortion is acceptable. Some think it's never acceptable, some sometimes (in case of rape and incest), some always, etc. But "traditional" Catholics tend to subscribe to the absolute ban, in other words, yes I obey or no I do not, rather than "I... loosely do." The ones who say the latter are usually not "traditionalists." That's all.

with kashrut its not just a spectrum of opinion. If you are anything BUT 100% observant or non observant, there are hundreds if not thousands of decision points. Even folks who are VERY observant almost inevitably end up with some inconsistencies. I assume most folks who face an actual decision about abortion do so relatively few times in their life.

A better comparison would probably be observance of lent. I am sure you can imagine how that could be observed loosely, and how someone who observes it loosely, would not fit in as untraditional.

I suspect your equating Judaism to Catholicism is also causing you to misread me. While I do not consider the movements within Judaism to be "sects" or "denominations" in this instance what you say would make more sense if I had said "traditional Orthodox" Within the Jewish world, where Reform is currently the largest movement in the USA, and many are completely secular, my familys level of kashrut observance puts us on the "right", if on the far left of those we would meet in a kosher supermarket. Certainly in the broader community, that we do not eat pork or shellfish, and avoid meat and milk mixtures (however inconsistently) makes many see us as religious traditionalists, and gives us something in common with members of other religious communities that have dietary and other ritual restrictions, who understand us generally better than secularists, better even than some Jews do. Despite the fact that up till now we eat treyf beef. Our positions (where we support our movement) on issues of gender and sexual orientation make us less than traditional = but I find it very odd being told by a gentile that I am not traditional because I eat treyf beef.

[brooklynborndad]

"My point was that "religious and culturally traditional" types whether orthodox (or "Ultra-Orthodox") Jewish, traditional Catholics, conservative evangelicals tend to view compliance with a religious commandment to be pretty dualist,"

at least within Judaism, we use traditional to mean something different from Orthodox, or the grouping you describe. If we were talking only of Evangelicals and ultra orthodox, I would use the term fundamentalist (though that does violence to the difference between biblical literalism and the hermeneutical hyperliteralism of traditional Judaism) I think "traditional" catholicism is the odd man out here - only in RC is the term traditional used for the most "right" part of the movement.

Conservadox Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Union for Traditional Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Religion in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shomer Masoret - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Masorti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[brooklynborndad]

BTW, I am traditional enough, to take seriously Proverbs (we call it Mishlei) 31:30, and to be alienated from our secular cultures ways of judging people by looks. I dont think these things always line up in a predictable manner, esp across different traditions.

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

with kashrut its not just a spectrum of opinion. If you are anything BUT 100% observant or non observant, there are hundreds if not thousands of decision points. Even folks who are VERY observant almost inevitably end up with some inconsistencies. I assume most folks who face an actual decision about abortion do so relatively few times in their life.

A better comparison would probably be observance of lent. I am sure you can imagine how that could be observed loosely, and how someone who observes it loosely, would not fit in as untraditional.

Traditional, you mean?

In any case, fair enough. I concede the larger the point, sir!

I suspect your equating Judaism to Catholicism is also causing you to misread me. While I do not consider the movements within Judaism to be "sects" or "denominations" in this instance what you say would make more sense if I had said "traditional Orthodox" Within the Jewish world, where Reform is currently the largest movement in the USA, and many are completely secular, my familys level of kashrut observance puts us on the "right", if on the far left of those we would meet in a kosher supermarket. Certainly in the broader community, that we do not eat pork or shellfish, and avoid meat and milk mixtures (however inconsistently) makes many see us as religious traditionalists, and gives us something in common with members of other religious communities that have dietary and other ritual restrictions, who understand us generally better than secularists, better even than some Jews do. Despite the fact that up till now we eat treyf beef. Our positions (where we support our movement) on issues of gender and sexual orientation make us less than traditional = but I find it very odd being told by a gentile that I am not traditional because I eat treyf beef.

Again, fair enough. I didn't have enough time to be more rigorous and specific. (THAT was a joke -- you know, the time thing. I'm sure you get it.) One point, however, I do know quite a few Orthodox Jews who would find your family's level of adherence to be non-traditional. Are they in the minority? Absolutely. But then again, "traditional" Catholics, numerically, are rather very few too in contrast to the vast "mainstream" Catholics who actually practice a very untraditional form of Catholicism.

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

we use traditional to mean something different from Orthodox, or the grouping you describe. If we were talking only of Evangelicals and ultra orthodox, I would use the term fundamentalist (though that does violence to the difference between biblical literalism and the hermeneutical hyperliteralism of traditional Judaism) I think "traditional" catholicism is the odd man out here - only in RC is the term traditional used for the most "right" part of the movement.

I meant "traditional" in the generic, fundamental (hehe) sense, not specific to the (as you'd say) contextualized defintion of "traditional" for each specific religion.

I do understand and agree that traditional in this sense is a culturally, politically and theologically loaded term, so I accept your responses and concede the point.

Be that as it may, I think the original point of all this, in context of home schoolers, still stands.

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

BTW, I am traditional enough, to take seriously Proverbs (we call it Mishlei) 31:30, and to be alienated from our secular cultures ways of judging people by looks. I dont think these things always line up in a predictable manner, esp across different traditions.

Re: "judging people by looks" comment, I quote the foremost authority on this method of insinuation:

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

I have attempted in my response to be fair and scrupulous - do NOT take that as my thinking that your inclusion of my comment in this thread was a reasonable or friendly thing. IOW - because context matters, taking statements out of context can be an inherently unfriendly act.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

Re: "judging people by looks" comment, I quote the foremost authority on this method of insinuation:

Yes. well you challenged me on my personal religious observance, and have made my familys religious observance and the consistency of it, a subject of numerous posts now, so my usual rule was off.

I DID give the reference rather than the quote, to soften it. And I did not mention you, but honestly spoke of my own position. Relevantly. That kind of POV, from Mishlei, IS traditional, is one of the things my Judaism has in common with Orthodox J, and is something that I would say all the folks in our homeschool community shared, vs what we find in many public schools.

[brooklynborndad]

"One point, however, I do know quite a few Orthodox Jews who would find your family's level of adherence to be non-traditional. Are they in the minority? "

I am willing to bet that they know what shomer masoret means, and would understand my familys level of observance to be "traditional" in that sense. Depending on how much they know of CJ, and WHICH C Jews they know, they might be surprised at just HOW traditional we are for C Jews (or they might not). I dont think most American O Jews use the word "traditional" to mean Orthodox, or completely observant.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

. But then again, "traditional" Catholics, numerically, are rather very few too in contrast to the vast "mainstream" Catholics who actually practice a very untraditional form of Catholicism.
.

I do not consider it my place to judge religious traditions other than my own, as to their authenticity. It would be nice if we had someone from a different POV within the Catholic tradition who could discuss the issues involved.