Why Our Local Real Estate Market Is Now in Danger (Honesdale: landlords, incomes)

[memoriesbre]

The crime rate has sored everywhere, not just in Scranton. Industry 30 years ago was much better all over the country. I still have to agree with Paul though. Scranton needs to build and bring in new business. If people realize that it is more affordable to run a business in Scranton than New York or New Jersey, then it just may happen.

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by memoriesbre

The crime rate has sored everywhere, not just in Scranton. Industry 30 years ago was much better all over the country. I still have to agree with Paul though. Scranton needs to build and bring in new business. If people realize that it is more affordable to run a business in Scranton than New York or New Jersey, then it just may happen.

But that's unlikely to happen. There is no incentive to run a business in a ghost town. That is why there is no real industry or wage sustaining jobs here in Scranton. Who wants to bring their business here, to a city with a mountain of debt and citizens fleeing every year. Nice thought though.

[weluvpa]

Originally Posted by memoriesbre

If people realize that it is more affordable to run a business in Scranton than New York or New Jersey, then it just may happen.

If they didn't realize that over the last 50 years then I don't have much faith in them seeing the light now......Our city is NOT conducive to running a business...the wage tax is the SECOND HIGHEST in the state for the fifth largest ( and shrinking) city in the state!!! The city has a merchantile/business tax, sign taxes, so and so on. Its much easier and more profitable to be in the Mid valley business park or in Olyphant, Archbald where most of the larger companies in the city seem to be moving. Again there is no incentive to move into SCranton. There are 100,000's of square feet of office space for rent in the city and its empty, even the tax free spaces are sitting empty.....Hmmmmm if we can not fill the TAX FREE spaces then I think we have a problem.

[mathjak107]

the problem with most of the poconos is there is no infrastructure for conducting any sizable business,... the utility companies dont have that kind of capacity, there is no public transportation in most areas. the sewer treatment plants cant handle much more or in alot of areas no treatment plants and no sewers.

most of the roads in and out of the hubs are 1 lane. if grandma is out driving your entire office can be late.

there is a total lack of business support services. in most areas getting even something from staples in a pinch is a 30 mile drive. i noticed when we took a little vacation in scranton that there wasnt more than 1 place even open for breakfast on a workday other than like a takeout bagel shop..

more than 1/2 the poconos is designated forever wild and is either state owned or has sooooo many restrictions on any kind of big business or manufacturing that its very difficult to fnd an area to locate a manufacturing plant or business of size.


thats why wall st west failed. the large firms realized there is no infrastructure available to them, in fact there are no buildings even big enough to hold a major business. they would have to first construct something and wait a year or 2 to move to our area. it dosnt look like "build it and they will come" holds true alot of times. most companies want it now

[SteelCityRising]

So just what nerdy Coldplay fan beat the Times-Tribune to the punch here?

High-end real estate market goes ice-cold in NEPA | News | thetimes-tribune.com - The Times-Tribune (http://scrantontimes.com/articles/2008/10/14/news/sc_times_trib.20081014.a.pg1.tt14realestate_s1.201 2902_top3.txt - broken link)

[MermanMike]

That's an interesting article, it is nice to read an honest perspective from a local realtor.

[weluvpa]

I don't think the quote ...."Scranton has stood up thru the storm" is accurate. I don't think that we have even seen the brunt of the storm in this nation, nevermind Scranton. Things are going to get alot worse before they get better......No more creative financing to get that big house you couldn't afford in the first place.

[BLUEDIAMOND64]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

I don't think the quote ...."Scranton has stood up thru the storm" is accurate. I don't think that we have even seen the brunt of the storm in this nation, nevermind Scranton. Things are going to get alot worse before they get better......No more creative financing to get that big house you couldn't afford in the first place.

I agree. However I watched a special by Chuck Scarborugh the other night with the one hour special with the financial team. They aired a family that had a mortage of $4,333.00 a month. I told my husband that after this aired everyone would come to his rescue and they did!! He should never have been given a mortgage in the first place

[businezguy]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

I don't think the quote ...."Scranton has stood up thru the storm" is accurate. I don't think that we have even seen the brunt of the storm in this nation, nevermind Scranton. Things are going to get alot worse before they get better......No more creative financing to get that big house you couldn't afford in the first place.

You can reference back to posts I made here up to a year ago, and posts on other message boards (under the same screen name) stating the same thing. I first saw that there would be a bubble in housing in 2003. I knew this bubble would challenge our financial system. I mention this only to let you know that I have a good perspective on this, since now that all of this is coming to pass, I can point to the credibility I've gained, and you'll take heart in what I'm saying.

There is a bottom to this housing mess. I know it doesn't seem that way now, and certainly that bottom hasn't been approached yet. However, I can assure you we are not in a permanent state of financial collapse. To give a poor analogy, it's as if we received the bill at an expensive restaurant and realized we didn't have the credit to pay for it, so we need to go into the back and wash some dishes. It might not be the most desirable thing to do, but eventually the owner will concede the debt has been paid off.

It's so hard to tell right now where that bottom is going to be, because there is a cycle in place that is driving down these prices. At what average price will houses become affordable to the market, especially since traditionally the real estate market is primarily a local market, and does not have a national pattern like it would appear now? At the very least, the market will recover when those holding the cash, combined with the income to feel comfortable with the cost of monthly payments, and feel the security in their jobs, begin to purchase homes, and the bank has the confidence to take on that debt and assume the risk. In essence it is very possible housing will need to go back to, or even slight BELOW it's 2001/2002 level before this correction will be complete. How many banks will fail, and how much money will go out of the market if that occurs is very hard to tabulate.

I would have to say that a bottom should begin to be looked at once prices nationwide get close to prices in 2003. At that point prices MIGHT still go a bit lower, but that should be a sign that we are beginning to reach the end of this crises. Once that happens, it will be all up from there, and in fact, would be a LIFETIME opportunity to make investments in real estate, the stock market, to start a small business (since many will have failed, and will leave gaping holes in needs for services). This will be a time when "start-ups" could take shape to be the next Microsoft, or Google, but be in their own right unique.

This will also be the time when Scranton can state that they survived the storm, and can begin to focus on another renaissance. Assuming this city makes the right steps, they will have been forced to and have successfully cut expenses, and stopped any and all major projects. Since many local/state governments will have done the same, such projects will become more affordable then they are today, as will the materials to build these projects. Also, since that this point the economy will be in an early state of recovery, cities like this should begin to see a slow but steady increase in the revenue coming into their coffers. Should this city have any vision,they should realize right NOW the need to decrease spending, and PLAN for the future and inevitable recovery that will come.

We should all do the same, for the sake of our families and for this nation. This is not a permanent state of events, and this is not the end of this nation, this is a correction in the national and global market that needed to happen while resources that were misallocated can be allocated properly, and prices equalized to make goods and services affordable again.

[busaf4]

As a former Scranton resident, I have seen the city die a slow death. I was in town from 1988 to 2003. I bailed out when the real estate market turned around in 2003 when out of town buyers though there was a lot of bargains The center city disintegrated greatly during this time. There was a very strong anti business attitude by the political ruling class. I saw so many small business that went away such as Leonard's Hardware since the political ruling class loves to painted small businessman as rich and greedy. The ruling class certainly took care of there own and they gave the slackers just enough public assistance to get their vote and and keep them quit. Boscov only had to put up 3% for the mall, the taxpayers were on the hook for the rest. When the Lackawanna Hotel at the rail road station seem to being holding its own, the city subsidizes a new hotel across the street (where Preno's used to be) that kills off the little hotel business that exists . Maybe the political ruling class believes the tourist will come to see the hookers and drug dealers on Cedar Ave. Sister Adrian was importing drug dealers and criminals from Philly and New York by the bus load so she could get her federal grants. She paid the first months rent and dumped these fine citizens on unsuspecting small landlords. The ruling class see prisons, call centers, and casinos as their new economic salvation. Maybe they can attract a new industry by promoting Bars, Pawn Shops and Bail Bonds. The clientele can get tanked up at the Bar, rob the pawn shop, and then get bailed out of jail by the bail bond shop. When they are released they can rob the old people and hock their new found possessions at the pawn shop. With the pawn shop money the can go the the bar and repeat the cycle.The political class will make out by setting up instant voter registration when the clientele get their bail bond.

Scranton was once a great city and you can see remnants in the old buildings and senior citizens that worked so hard. As the senors are passing on, so goes the magnificent memories of Scranton's better days. The city area has two good colleges, but the ruling class does have the brains to get out of the way and allow these young people to find opportunities in the Lackawanna /Wyoming Valley. Now any young Scranton raised person who has a brain and is hard working moves out as fast as possible. The slackers, druggies, and criminals stay behind. Scranton once has a population of over 140,000. I would not be surprised to see it drop to 30,000.


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