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It showed the full potential. Companies actually upzone and request new zoning to increase the value of the land or developer interest. It’s about showing the maximum revenue a parcel of land could build out. This could even get the developer better terms on a loan (it’s a less risky loan if you know that you could add more revenue and such).
It’s very well Raleigh might not get the request it is seeking, and it will determine that. A 40-floor tower just is 100% contingent on demand.
I really wish some of you would think of real world development impacts rather than fanboy stuff
Good lord - let's wait until the end of the RFI period. I agree that this won't likely go 40 stories. The city has boxed itself in by requesting such large and high profile projects on this site. It wouldn't suprise me one bit if the city-county contributed millions in order to get what they want, particularly if it jump starts the project. They seem to be doing that with other projects; particularly if it gets a 500 room building.
I am surprised that the Raleigh City Council didn't consult with you before making their RFI. LOL.
It showed the full potential. Companies actually upzone and request new zoning to increase the value of the land or developer interest. It’s about showing the maximum revenue a parcel of land could build out. This could even get the developer better terms on a loan (it’s a less risky loan if you know that you could add more revenue and such).
It’s very well Raleigh might not get the request it is seeking, and it will determine that. A 40-floor tower just is 100% contingent on demand.
I really wish some of you would think of real world development impacts rather than fanboy stuff
Man I know you're popping a "Raleigh is too small for a 40 floor tower" boner and stroking your Charlotte ego again, but no this does not show the full potential. What a strange thing to say.
Man I know you're popping a "Raleigh is too small for a 40 floor tower" boner and stroking your Charlotte ego again, but no this does not show the full potential. What a strange thing to say.
I don't have a Charlotte ego, I actually have a Washington ego now. Much, much prefer it over CLT in more ways than one - including the people. Such a great, great city.
Anyway..... I'm not saying Raleigh is too small for a 40-floor tower (which the height not as relevant as the Sq. Footage is). My point is pointing out the naivete of posters not understanding the economics. This Raleigh Fanboy "Oh, we have such high standards and there's just no rush for development because Raleigh only wants to pursue high quality projects" is just so naive. I'm simply saying, if the market supports it - the market supports it. And people developing these buildings - Who answer to banks - who answer to investors, don't have a vested interest in Raleigh. They are doing what makes them $$$.
But you guys also think - and have said - that Charlotte builds tall buildings to look like a big city. That's equally annoying because a grown adult should have better reasoning skills than to think buildings are built just so city XYZ looks big....
And btw, Charlotte was inserted by the poster below saying:
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleighsocial
City of Raleigh was very specific that they're not in a rush and doesn't need to move forward with any proposal. They will accept only the proposal that meets or exceeds their requirements and of 'great design'. Period.
This isn't like the bus station tower. There isn't a deadline.
Also the Grand Bohemian hotel in Charlotte is bland, made of EIFS (glorified stucco), small for the location. That's not great design.
Which I think it's very odd considering how much larger the building is for its location compared to a proposal for a Grand Bohemian in Raleigh.... It was just so ironic, how could it go unmentioned? The CLT one is the same height as the SECU building in Raleigh, I think.
But you guys also think - and have said - that Charlotte builds tall buildings to look like a big city. That's equally annoying because a grown adult should have better reasoning skills than to think buildings are built just so city XYZ looks big....
Very true; city leaders can't just simply demand that developers build tall buildings and they get built. Charlotte just so happens to be a big banking center and nobody builds tall buildings like banks do; it's just a function of the composition of the local economy and the clustering effect.
I don't have a Charlotte ego, I actually have a Washington ego now. Much, much prefer it over CLT in more ways than one - including the people. Such a great, great city.
Anyway..... I'm not saying Raleigh is too small for a 40-floor tower (which the height not as relevant as the Sq. Footage is). My point is pointing out the naivete of posters not understanding the economics. This Raleigh Fanboy "Oh, we have such high standards and there's just no rush for development because Raleigh only wants to pursue high quality projects" is just so naive. I'm simply saying, if the market supports it - the market supports it. And people developing these buildings - Who answer to banks - who answer to investors, don't have a vested interest in Raleigh. They are doing what makes them $$$.
But you guys also think - and have said - that Charlotte builds tall buildings to look like a big city. That's equally annoying because a grown adult should have better reasoning skills than to think buildings are built just so city XYZ looks big....
And btw, Charlotte was inserted by the poster below saying:
Which I think it's very odd considering how much larger the building is for its location compared to a proposal for a Grand Bohemian in Raleigh.... It was just so ironic, how could it go unmentioned? The CLT one is the same height as the SECU building in Raleigh, I think.
Sure it would be tall for Raleigh but this building is in downtown Charlotte. It is small for the location. It's the smallest building within earshot sans the church. If they were going for low-key they nailed it. If they were going for impressive how do we treat any proposal from this hotelier?
Very true; city leaders can't just simply demand that developers build tall buildings and they get built. Charlotte just so happens to be a big banking center and nobody builds tall buildings like banks do; it's just a function of the composition of the local economy and the clustering effect.
This is very true. The government can't demand that someone build something without offering strong incentives. The possible difference in this situation is that because the city wants a 500 room hotel on a site adjacent to the convention center, it wouldn't surprise me if they are willing to subsidize the project in order to get it done. They did this before with the Marriott. The location of this land, and the close proximity to the convention center makes it critical.
The Kessler pitch is complicated for two reasons: not enough hotel rooms for the site and not enough height for the site, particularly for the optional tower component. Although the renderings look beautiful, I believe that this is a nonstarter in that this concept doesn't come close enough to meeting any of the specifications.
The RFI period runs through March. It's only been about 3 weeks and it's very likely other folks will express interest. I believe that the city will prefer a less "glamorous" structure in exchange for something with more hotel rooms (even if it's less than 500) and more height.
Three options if none of the bidders meet the specs:
1. Subsidize like they did with the Marriott, and get what they want.
2. Do nothing at the present time.
3. Lower expectations and accept something smaller, like 200 - 300 rooms.
This is very true. The government can't demand that someone build something without offering strong incentives. The possible difference in this situation is that because the city wants a 500 room hotel on a site adjacent to the convention center, it wouldn't surprise me if they are willing to subsidize the project in order to get it done. They did this before with the Marriott. The location of this land, and the close proximity to the convention center makes it critical.
The Kessler pitch is complicated for two reasons: not enough hotel rooms for the site and not enough height for the site, particularly for the optional tower component. Although the renderings look beautiful, I believe that this is a nonstarter in that this concept doesn't come close enough to meeting any of the specifications.
The RFI period runs through March. It's only been about 3 weeks and it's very likely other folks will express interest. I believe that the city will prefer a less "glamorous" structure in exchange for something with more hotel rooms (even if it's less than 500) and more height.
Three options if none of the bidders meet the specs:
1. Subsidize like they did with the Marriott, and get what they want.
2. Do nothing at the present time.
3. Lower expectations and accept something smaller, like 200 - 300 rooms.
We will all know in the next few months.
A convention center anchor hotel is one of the few developments where a city can have more direct influence over size/height, and even more so if it also includes office/residential. A 500-room anchor hotel definitely sounds reasonable for downtown Raleigh and I agree that the city would probably subsidize it to some extent to get it.
A convention center anchor hotel is one of the few developments where a city can have more direct influence over size/height, and even more so if it also includes office/residential. A 500-room anchor hotel definitely sounds reasonable for downtown Raleigh and I agree that the city would probably subsidize it to some extent to get it.
City of Raleigh will subsidize the selected proposal to the tune of $30 million AND two of the most prime, most desirable plots of land anywhere in Raleigh. That is why the city is asking for something a little better than what has so far been presented.
The biggest hurdle to this project is the boom in downtown hotel construction that will happen soon that will probably scare off some jumpy hoteliers:
126 room Origin Hotel, opening in March.
57 room Longleaf (boutique) Hotel, now open.
150 room hotel at the Seaboard Station redevelopment, construction starts this year.
165 room hotel at the Raleigh Crossing project, under construction now.
264 room hotel at the Nexus development, likely to break ground end of this year.
190 room Courtyard Marriott on McDowell Street, under development
259 room Hilton Garden next door
190 room Nash Square Hotel
150 room The Willard on Glenwood South, construction starts this year.
190 room Hilton Home2 & Tru, almost finished permitting.
And I believe a few more hotels are being considered I just can't think of them right now.
A convention center anchor hotel is one of the few developments where a city can have more direct influence over size/height, and even more so if it also includes office/residential. A 500-room anchor hotel definitely sounds reasonable for downtown Raleigh and I agree that the city would probably subsidize it to some extent to get it.
There's a codependency between the convention center and the hotel that the city is seeking. Given the proximity of this site to the convention center, I agree that the city is likely to do what it needs to do to make that hotel happen.
City of Raleigh will subsidize the selected proposal to the tune of $30 million AND two of the most prime, most desirable plots of land anywhere in Raleigh. That is why the city is asking for something a little better than what has so far been presented.
The biggest hurdle to this project is the boom in downtown hotel construction that will happen soon that will probably scare off some jumpy hoteliers:
126 room Origin Hotel, opening in March.
57 room Longleaf (boutique) Hotel, now open.
150 room hotel at the Seaboard Station redevelopment, construction starts this year.
165 room hotel at the Raleigh Crossing project, under construction now.
264 room hotel at the Nexus development, likely to break ground end of this year.
190 room Courtyard Marriott on McDowell Street, under development
259 room Hilton Garden next door
190 room Nash Square Hotel
150 room The Willard on Glenwood South, construction starts this year.
190 room Hilton Home2 & Tru, almost finished permitting.
And I believe a few more hotels are being considered I just can't think of them right now.
That's a LOT of hotel proposals.
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