why do people move back up north after moving down south? (New York: best cities, school district)
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The main reason has already been suggested by a few people: New Yorkers feel out of place and find it hard to adjust to the South. Obviously, this comment doesn't include all New Yorkers who move back home, but from my eyeball test, I can say this speaks of most....
When you leave one region of the country to go to another, there is always an adjustment period. From Upstate New Yorkers, I've found that this is more difficult because people here are more narrow-minded. There really isn't much in the way of diversity in NYS state unless you live in the major cities, and 'diversity' is including religious diversity, racial diversity, scholastic diversity, and so on. I will also disagree with the poster who believes that northerners sense of humor is more crude/harsher and southerners dont take it well. I've found that its the complete opposite! People here are unbelievably sensitive, and likewise its northerners who are are slow to accept or embrace southerners....
Again, this is not a one size fits all thing. I've met plenty of hospitable people in NYS...
I believe that religion is a little more celebrated in the South and that Northerners aren't prepared for that. People praise and worship differently, and its something that I cant quite explain, but it is a little off-putting to northerners. They aren't generally happy with the climate change, although you hear often up north how people would like more sunny and warmer days, but they despise it once they move south....
As far as how southerners treat northerners, I wont deny that there are occasions where some people go out of their way to make you all feel uncomfortable. But that is certainly not the standard. I think that it is moreso that northerners seem to be slower or less willing to want to be embraced, and it isn;t unusual to hear a northerner make comments about how backwards, or country, or silly a certain custom may be, or food, or the way we dress, or accents, or relationships, you name it. Nobody wants to hear that **** all the time, and once you develop that reputation of arrogance, that in turn may be when you get the feeling that southerners wont open up to you....
There are reasons galore, and sometimes it is just as simple as people get homesick. Most people have a deep loving and fondness from where they are from/were raised at. But to keep it simple, I just find that when northerners move back home, its because they just could not adapt to the lifestyles and culture of wherever they were in the South...
The main reason has already been suggested by a few people: New Yorkers feel out of place and find it hard to adjust to the South. Obviously, this comment doesn't include all New Yorkers who move back home, but from my eyeball test, I can say this speaks of most....
When you leave one region of the country to go to another, there is always an adjustment period. From Upstate New Yorkers, I've found that this is more difficult because people here are more narrow-minded. There really isn't much in the way of diversity in NYS state unless you live in the major cities, and 'diversity' is including religious diversity, racial diversity, scholastic diversity, and so on. I will also disagree with the poster who believes that northerners sense of humor is more crude/harsher and southerners dont take it well. I've found that its the complete opposite! People here are unbelievably sensitive, and likewise its northerners who are are slow to accept or embrace southerners....
Again, this is not a one size fits all thing. I've met plenty of hospitable people in NYS...
I believe that religion is a little more celebrated in the South and that Northerners aren't prepared for that. People praise and worship differently, and its something that I cant quite explain, but it is a little off-putting to northerners. They aren't generally happy with the climate change, although you hear often up north how people would like more sunny and warmer days, but they despise it once they move south....
As far as how southerners treat northerners, I wont deny that there are occasions where some people go out of their way to make you all feel uncomfortable. But that is certainly not the standard. I think that it is moreso that northerners seem to be slower or less willing to want to be embraced, and it isn;t unusual to hear a northerner make comments about how backwards, or country, or silly a certain custom may be, or food, or the way we dress, or accents, or relationships, you name it. Nobody wants to hear that **** all the time, and once you develop that reputation of arrogance, that in turn may be when you get the feeling that southerners wont open up to you....
There are reasons galore, and sometimes it is just as simple as people get homesick. Most people have a deep loving and fondness from where they are from/were raised at. But to keep it simple, I just find that when northerners move back home, its because they just could not adapt to the lifestyles and culture of wherever they were in the South...
As someone who moved from Upstate NY, to the south, and then back after 13 years...all I can say to these fairly audacious comments is
^^^how are these audacious comments? There is no right nor wrong answer to the question of "why do northerners move back home?" An answer to this question is based off of the observation of people you know who have moved back to the north, and the reasons of they did, whether stated or implied...
You must have missed the part that said my statement isn't all-inclusive, but I am not apologizing or backing off of it as a generalization. If the characterization doesn't apply to you, it doesn't...
There is a frame of mind that persists here that the world is no bigger than New York. While you likely wont hear anyone state that, that say it in many other ways, in terms of lifestyle, conversation, ambition, etc. There are seeping allegations made about not just southerners, but about things in general that people havent experienced or seen. And sure, these type of people exist everywhere, I'm telling you they are more prevalent here. I havent lived in one or two states--I've lived in six. Upstate New Yorkers are very quick to speak about things which they have no knowledge of, and refuse to accept that they may be wrong about it....
About the sensitivity here, I'm talking from personal experience. Over and over again, I've heard that my speech and tone is disrespectful, brash, loud, harsh--things that I never heard in the South. Maybe because people there are more used to how I speak....*aside*I heard these things less and less as I lived in NYS, because I adapted to northern preference, and also, I'm not vain enough to believe that I say nothing wrong. However, straightening my speech as I have, it does not change the notion I have of northerners being more sensitive. Because the vast majority of times I was told these things, I meant absolutely no harm, and was speaking in casual conversation the same way I'd speak back home, whatever the topic may have been...
Obviously, plenty of northerners move south and love it, and adjust to the South just fine and some never wanna return home. This thread is not about them, though....
My final note is that I love Central New York. None of this has any bearing on my admiration and overall like for the state...
I was born in Utica but I lived in Cary, NC for 10 years and only moved back because my wife missed her family and she gave up on any of our family actually leaving NY and moving down with us. NC was great and I miss it. Friendly people, good jobs, and lots of things to do. I have been back in NY for 3 years now and I can't wait for a chance to go back. This area is so negative and it's sucking the life out of me.
^^^how are these audacious comments? There is no right nor wrong answer to the question of "why do northerners move back home?" An answer to this question is based off of the observation of people you know who have moved back to the north, and the reasons of they did, whether stated or implied...
You must have missed the part that said my statement isn't all-inclusive, but I am not apologizing or backing off of it as a generalization. If the characterization doesn't apply to you, it doesn't...
There is a frame of mind that persists here that the world is no bigger than New York. While you likely wont hear anyone state that, that say it in many other ways, in terms of lifestyle, conversation, ambition, etc. There are seeping allegations made about not just southerners, but about things in general that people havent experienced or seen. And sure, these type of people exist everywhere, I'm telling you they are more prevalent here. I havent lived in one or two states--I've lived in six. Upstate New Yorkers are very quick to speak about things which they have no knowledge of, and refuse to accept that they may be wrong about it....
About the sensitivity here, I'm talking from personal experience. Over and over again, I've heard that my speech and tone is disrespectful, brash, loud, harsh--things that I never heard in the South. Maybe because people there are more used to how I speak....*aside*I heard these things less and less as I lived in NYS, because I adapted to northern preference, and also, I'm not vain enough to believe that I say nothing wrong. However, straightening my speech as I have, it does not change the notion I have of northerners being more sensitive. Because the vast majority of times I was told these things, I meant absolutely no harm, and was speaking in casual conversation the same way I'd speak back home, whatever the topic may have been...
Obviously, plenty of northerners move south and love it, and adjust to the South just fine and some never wanna return home. This thread is not about them, though....
My final note is that I love Central New York. None of this has any bearing on my admiration and overall like for the state...
"People Upstate are close-minded" "those who move south and move back simply couldn't handle the culture shock" etc.... Ridiculous accusations. In my experience (personal and in bearing witness to others who have moved south and then moved back)...the overwhelming majority of people who leave Upstate NY and then return do so for family reasons. Usually a combination of missing family/wanting their children to grow up around family (definitely our main reason for returning) and/or the stronger sense of community that one finds here than in many of the newer sunbelt areas. Not to mention the schools in suburban Rochester are generally better than those in the south. There are some great schools in some very nice areas of suburban Raleigh/Wake County...but you can live 1 mile away from them and your kids will go to a school 10 miles away in a rough neighborhood; and chances are you will be reassigned within a few years too.
I was born in Utica but I lived in Cary, NC for 10 years and only moved back because my wife missed her family and she gave up on any of our family actually leaving NY and moving down with us. NC was great and I miss it. Friendly people, good jobs, and lots of things to do. I have been back in NY for 3 years now and I can't wait for a chance to go back. This area is so negative and it's sucking the life out of me.
Are you in Utica? Was another nearby area an option?
I can see what murksiderock and just_sayin' are saying. I have siblings in Charlotte and VA Beach and while they like it, they also can see the pros of living up here too. I think the thing with many people that move South is that many move to the same/stereotypical places like Cary, Mount Pleasant, Summerville, etc. If you are from Downstate, you are going to have a different view versus someone from Upstate due to cost of living.
There's also a cultural factor, especially if you are African American due to having roots in the South, most likely. With that said, even said folks aren't necessarily moving to country towns like Mullins SC(my mothers hometown), but to a major city or smaller, resort city. I've heard of there still being a good ole boy, old school mentality in some areas in certain aspects. This is everywhere to a degree though. I also think people have to be open about the culture and demographics in much of the South, as that could be a big change for some.
Schools play a factor in terms of quality and/or assignments too.
As for friendliness, I think it can vary in both regions and depending upon where you are(urban vs small town). I've seen people in the South be very nice, but I've also seen some folks be a bit unwelcoming. So, even that varies. It could also be a thing of mistaking a different pace for an attitude too.
@just sayin, how can my personal experiences and observations be "ridiculous accusations", but yours aren't? Not to mention, you just basically rehashed what I said--that there are various reasons someone may return home, which includes wanting to be back around family. But there is nothing that you've said that contradicts my statement that some of you all aren't able to adapt to the culture shock...
It is very true that the schools are zoned differently in Carolina. It's weird to you, the way their zoned up here are weird to me; this is itself is a matter of where you grew up. I personally see no reason, for instance, that a county (especially a county devoid of a single large city) should have 10 different school districts lol. Not to mention, I find it comical the political distinctions between city/town/village. Like Elmira, the city, then Elmira, the town? What the hell is that? Haha, you get used to it though, so this in itself has nothing to do with the topic at hand...
I'll voraciously disagree with your assertion that there exists a "stronger sense of community" here. There exists a different sense of community, that may in some instances be stronger according to demographics, as @ck alluded to above, but aside from demographical differences, there is most certainly not a "stronger" sense of community. The cultures are equal to each other in terms of community. The fact that you even made that statement just re-affirms my point that the adjustment to Southern life is more difficult for you all than the adjustment to Northern life is for us southerners, and I'm starting to believe that that description applies to you specifically, because you're the only person taking offense to statements that weren't offensive. Was living in Raleigh that scary for you?
@ck, you make some very good points; allow me to point out another. As a grouping, Northerners tend to be more willing to follow Southern stereotypical beliefs, which means that they are less likely to abandon those stereotypical beliefs in the face of proof counter to them. On the other side, sure, stereoptypes exist of New Yorkers/Northerners for us too, and are spoken about wrongly at times. But what we dont do is what dont move up here voicing these beliefs, or really having them at all. It is not uncommon to hear someone up here who has never even been to the South make some silly statement regarding Southern life, and it is definitely not uncommon to see Northerners go south doing the same thing. The question I would pose to anyone who disagrees is tell me how many Southerners you've met who fit this profile. And if you disagree, its likely because as humans of habit, we have a tendency to not notice what we are accustomed to hearing/doing/saying...
Everything you said about racial and ethnic differences in the culture are dead-on. Perceptions are a little different because the style of living and areas you live in and people you live around tend to be different and/or view race and race relations differently....but that "good ole boy" mentality, thats up to one's opinion all the way. I'd say it definitely exists, but not to the extent that is assumed, or maybe even you yourself believe, because I've never lived in an area like that. Then, we have to define what that even means lol, because it can be argued that that mentality is present up here, as you said. It is no secret that outside of the largest cities in this state, there is an extremely backwoods mentality here. And this is not just the comments of a southerner, because when I've met people from Roc/Buff/Cuse/NYC down in the Southern Tier, both white and black, many of them comment on the lack of diversity and open-mindedness. I had a Syracuse person tell me that about Auburn, a town I actually like!
The school assignments are what they are. They're zoned differently, busing is different, because it largely has to be that way to ensure segregationn in the schools doesn't happen again. People like @just sayin arent gonna understand that, and its not really important to understand it, until you make a comment about the school assignments. Its simple to us, the same way the zoning here is simple to you all....
And there are extremely friendly people here. I've never felt that people in NYS were less friendly, or southerners more firendly. You hit that on the head, its people on both sides of friendliness everywhere you go...
I'm not going to read that entire post you just wrote but rather explain what I found wrong about your first post. The generalizations of people in Upstate NY you made....where you called Upstate NYers "close minded" or "unable to handle culture shock" is absurd and offensive and paints the people of an entire region with a very broad brush. Generalizations like that just seem very short-sighted. I don't doubt that you know people Upstate who are close-minded or people who moved back from the south because the "culture shock" was too much for them; but to state that everyone who does so is like that is again, ridiculous.
There is a frame of mind that persists here that the world is no bigger than New York. While you likely wont hear anyone state that, that say it in many other ways, in terms of lifestyle, conversation, ambition, etc.
Talk about over generalizing! Not everyone in NYS believes the world isn't larger than NY. I do have to point out that NY is the ONLY state in the US that has a world class city. It's also the third highest populated state. It's one of the original 13 colonies and there are places here that go back to the 1600's! There are entire villages where the homes are all from the 1700's.
There's a reason some NYers may see NY as the world. The world has been coming to US for centuries!
If you want big city life, we have numerous large cities including the most populated one in the country which offers boundless opportunities. If you want a country life, we have plenty of that. If you want something in between, there's plenty of that as well. You can hold any occupation here except maybe on an oil rig or a crab boat. Although you can fish in the ocean out of NY.
NY has great land and water. We have water resources that no one else in the entire WORLD has. We have 2 Great Lakes, the Finger Lakes, the Adirondacks and the dozens of lakes there, major rivers which open the world up to the midwest and western part of the country via the Erie Canal, and not to mention that little thing called the Atlantic Ocean.
So why wouldn't NYers feel that NY is the center of the world? To many people it is and they're not even from NY! Many people around the world dreamed of arriving in NY at Ellis Island. It was their ticket to a better life and the opportunity of America. And it was in a little place called New York.
What's not to love? The Pride of New York is a good thing!
I think when people speak about the sense of community, school districting can serve as an example. For instance, if you live in the Rush-Henrietta SD, you pretty much know or grow up with the kids you go to school with throughout your schooling, whereas in say Durham County, NC, you may grow up with a set of kids for elementary school, but for middle school you go to a school across town. So, that sense of community in that respect is less fragmented up here versus areas with county SD's, in some cases. County SD's really caught on Down South not necessarily for integration, but also when people started seeing that costs went down, then people started jumping on board.
Also, I think what people are saying in terms of diversity is really about integration in regards to housing patterns. What people forget is that this isn't necessarily racial, but even among White ethnic groups, which a state like NY will have more of in comparison due to immigration patterns, you find ethnic neighborhoods. It isn't as strict as it once was, but some still retain at least an ethnic character. Then, you have to think that diversity is a loaded term, because people may think in racial/ethnic terms versus just racial terms, let alone other social aspects.
As for the good ole boy comment, I got this from my brother who is in law enforcement in the Tidewater/Hampton Roads area and he was talking in terms of political power, that Black folks there weren't really in a lot of positions relative to their size or to that effect. That shocked me that he said that and he isn't some disgruntled person saying this. So, I was surprised, considering that relative to metro size, you actually get a decent amount of representation within some of the Black populations/communities here. I'll have to ask him again what he meant by that, but it did surprise me.
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