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It's true, I am applying for a place at Castle Gardens. Because I am an Official Cripple (SSDI), my income has been too low for most new buildings, but not this one. I like the fact it will be an LEED (environmentally-certified) building, because environmental exposure is half the reason I'm d/a now.
Because I have mobility problems, one of my hesitations is that the side streets Riverside - Broadway, and Amsterdam - St. Nicks - 8th Ave etc. are very hilly. I'm hoping on bad days I can get around it by walking down Riverside to 135th, which is not nearly so steep.
DAS's observations about trafficking in Hell's Kitchen are correct; the dealing is not quite as obvious as even 2 years ago, but we have many lifer-addicts and other marginal people in the area (I now include myself in this category). This is partly because they have been pushed over to the literal, physical margins of Manhattan, though the sex trade has moved back on the side streets all the way to 6th Avenue in the lower 40's. Distaff activity of both kinds are not as visible as 7 years ago, and certainly not as 25 years ago, when I first came through the area, but it's still here.
However, judging from the comments and my own observations, there is more obvious street dealing in H. Heights. I suppose I could get used to it, but having lived in Central Harlem between 1998-2003, the level in H. Hgts is certainly more concentrated.
I don't pretend dealers will bother me; I'm worried about territorial disputes with firearms.
It's true, I am applying for a place at Castle Gardens. Because I am an Official Cripple (SSDI), my income has been too low for most new buildings, but not this one. I like the fact it will be an LEED (environmentally-certified) building, because environmental exposure is half the reason I'm d/a now.
Because I have mobility problems, one of my hesitations is that the side streets Riverside - Broadway, and Amsterdam - St. Nicks - 8th Ave etc. are very hilly. I'm hoping on bad days I can get around it by walking down Riverside to 135th, which is not nearly so steep.
DAS's observations about trafficking in Hell's Kitchen are correct; the dealing is not quite as obvious as even 2 years ago, but we have many lifer-addicts and other marginal people in the area (I now include myself in this category). This is partly because they have been pushed over to the literal, physical margins of Manhattan, though the sex trade has moved back on the side streets all the way to 6th Avenue in the lower 40's. Distaff activity of both kinds are not as visible as 7 years ago, and certainly not as 25 years ago, when I first came through the area, but it's still here.
However, judging from the comments and my own observations, there is more obvious street dealing in H. Heights. I suppose I could get used to it, but having lived in Central Harlem between 1998-2003, the level in H. Hgts is certainly more concentrated.
I don't pretend dealers will bother me; I'm worried about territorial disputes with firearms.
i read the links that nooyowur81 provided. it looks like a beautiful building, but i agree i think the rents are steep considering the incom limits.
this is a good area for bus transportation, and should be able to get around easily on bad days. you can take the m5 on riverside drive to any of the major cross streets like 110th, 125th, 145th, etc and get a bus across town to any major avenue. bus service is frequent.
hamilton heights has never had the level of drug dealing and poverty that central harlem had in the 90's. i know some will disagree but central used to be a lot rougher than hamilton heights. hamilton heights always has had a socio-economic mix. people were expected to carry themselves a certain way when the lived "up on the hill", while this expectation waned somewhat in the last generation, the pressure to uphold it, was still there to a certain extent from the elders.
there are lifer addicts, which i think make up the majority. most of them are older, and are not causing any major problems now.
things have drastically changed in hamilton heights just in the last 5 years. there are still dealers, and there is still loitering but not nearly as much as some years ago. i'm not saying it couldn't happen, but it is not likely that you will come across a territorial drug dispute.
it is hard now to live in hamilton heights without a certain income, it always was, that is why it never deteriorated to the extent that south and central harlem did, but now more so than in recent years.
drug dealing is definitely not concentrated in hamilton heights. after you have been there for a while, you will be able to tell which guys just like to meet up after school, or work and talk outside on a nice day, or which women that like to do the same. you will get to know the seniors, and the disabled, that may no longer work. you will be able to tell these people, from the ones that are up to no good.
sometime in hamilton heights there are generations of families living within blocks of each other. sometimes in the same buildings and they just like to meet and mingle and they do it on the sidewalk when the weather is nice. the faces will become familiar, this is how you will get your neighborhood info sooner or later.
much more always has been, there are projects and other subsidized housing in hells kitchen just like in harlem. there are more brothels and street prostitution, and other organized crime activities down there, that go on at a much higher level than it ever did in harlem. you are sugar coating that area or you are just naive to it and only see the upscale buildings in the area when you go down there.
Your really making assumptions. Unless you're in the neighborhood 24/7 and on every block, you cant say it has more prostitution than Harlem. But if you can back that up, then your point stands. Otherwise, I'm not buying it. Also, we're not talking about prostitution. And who is in charge of this organized crime activtiy? The mafia lol....And wow ...considering West Harlem had murder rates in the mid 60's the back in the 90's....I doubt crime in Hells Kitchen was ever at a higher level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS
can depend on you and other posters to tell all about the bad in washington heights and harlem, so i don't need to repeat it. i just try to make people not familiar with the areas aware of the good things there as well. i walked those same streets, see those same guys, and i saw many walking by my side fall. but it doesn't have to be that way. heroin is all over the suburbs now, in million dollar neighborhoods, but everyone doesn't have to go that way.
i don't know that harlem and washington heights are the most drug saturated areas of the city. i knew people that grew up in college point, and throgs neck, and never had problems buying in those areas, also they had much more money to spend, got larger amounts, and better quality, so they said.
There is good in Harlem, and in any neighborhood. But your trying to downplay the serious drug problem that plagues the neighborhood. You can achieve one without sugarcoating the problems. And again you're comparing Harlem to upper-scale neighborhoods. Does that sound right to you? What's next..."oh sure people get killed in Detroit....but people also get killed in Beverly Hills...its not so bad".....of course there are drugs everywhere but what makes a neighborhood worse than another is the amount of drug dealing/usage....and Harlem is at another level compared to most other neighborhoods.
Also there are articles from the early 90's ...were official narcotic detectives, DE's continuously named Washington Heights the most drug saturated neighborhood in the city. And this was when other neighborhoods were at there very worst....also consider the fact that W.H is in a very strategic location where they can supply New Jersey, the Bronx, and upstate NY....and the residents are from a country that is one of the main transport ports for drugs....
And as far as not being as bad as central Harlem...of course it wasn't...nothing was. The only neighborhood on the level of Central Harlem was the South Bronx. But in terms of murder rates...West Harlem was in the top 10 ..easily. It was and still is the hood. Drug crews owned all those blocks of Broadway, Amsterdam etc....and many buildings were burned. Just look at how many rehabbed buildings you find there.
Your really making assumptions. Unless you're in the neighborhood 24/7 and on every block, you cant say it has more prostitution than Harlem. But if you can back that up, then your point stands. Otherwise, I'm not buying it. Also, we're not talking about prostitution. And who is in charge of this organized crime activtiy? The mafia lol....And wow ...considering West Harlem had murder rates in the mid 60's the back in the 90's....I doubt crime in Hells Kitchen was ever at a higher level.
There is good in Harlem, and in any neighborhood. But your trying to downplay the serious drug problem that plagues the neighborhood. You can achieve one without sugarcoating the problems. And again you're comparing Harlem to upper-scale neighborhoods. Does that sound right to you? What's next..."oh sure people get killed in Detroit....but people also get killed in Beverly Hills...its not so bad".....of course there are drugs everywhere but what makes a neighborhood worse than another is the amount of drug dealing/usage....and Harlem is at another level compared to most other neighborhoods.
Also there are articles from the early 90's ...were official narcotic detectives, DE's continuously named Washington Heights the most drug saturated neighborhood in the city. And this was when other neighborhoods were at there very worst....also consider the fact that W.H is in a very strategic location where they can supply New Jersey, the Bronx, and upstate NY....and the residents are from a country that is one of the main transport ports for drugs....
And as far as not being as bad as central Harlem...of course it wasn't...nothing was. The only neighborhood on the level of Central Harlem was the South Bronx. But in terms of murder rates...West Harlem was in the top 10 ..easily. It was and still is the hood. Drug crews owned all those blocks of Broadway, Amsterdam etc....and many buildings were burned. Just look at how many rehabbed buildings you find there.
do you know exactly where hell's kitchen is? if you do you wouldn't even debate about which is more dangerous, hamilton heights or hells kitchen. hell's kitchen includes the notorious area going west of port authority. a seasoned nyer can see what is going on behind the disney land type bright lights. the op stated that now things are not going on at the level it was, but it still goes on.
mid sixties to early nineties drug problem in hamilton heights? compared to what? mid sixties to early nineties hell's kitchen? still no comparison.
the op stated how hell's kitchen is today, and i stated how hamilton heights is today, some things still seem like if you can live in one, you can live in another.
organized crime is what it is, it doesn't have to involve what is considered the mafia. i never mentioned the mafia. are you using the term as a catch-all phrase, or are you using it as implied, like the godfather movie?
you keep referring to the mid sixties to early nineties serious hamilton heights drug problems. it is 2010. i lived in hamilton heights in the 80's and 90's. i am still around there at least once a week. blocks that you wouldn't want to walk through back then, you can now. buildings that you wouldn't live in back then, you would want to live in now.
i would rather see more decent people continue to move into the area, than for it to attract people involved in criminal activities.
one more thing to address. the buildings in hamilton heights were not burned out like the south bronx. most of us actually ran back to hamilton heights after being burned out of the south bronx, or like my family, for fear of being burned out.
keep in mind, that before the crack era in the sixties, heroin was king, and people fled to the bronx, and queens mainly. those boros were beautiful. then the fires in the bronx, drove people back that were originally from harlem. then crack came along.
hamilton heights stayed in pretty good shape. the rehabbing occurred because of buildings being old and needing renovation. a lot of them went coop.
also i would like to add. supermario you have mentioned many times in the past that you are an engineering major at ccny. i hope things are going well with your studies. ccny is in hamilton heights. if the situation is so dire in hamilton heights, i keep wondering how in the world do you manage to walk from the campus to your mode of transportation, to and from class. also what about those high school students at the specialized high school on the campus? if things are so bad why in the world would the parents allow them to walk over there from their modes of transportation. Just wondering.
I took a stroll this afternoon around where that new building is today since I was in the neighborhood plus I was curious about how it looked in person. It looks like a decent block. The building is closer to riverside than Broadway which is a plus. It's across the street from what appears to be a Mitchell-Lama. As you all know very well the weather has been very nice as of late but there were no signs that it would be a rowdy or possibly problematic block. It was quiet. They are still working on a few things on the building but it looks nice.
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Hamilton Heights/West Harlem - Should I move there
