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Neighborhoods that have been declining since 1990 in the Bronx:
Wakefield
Williamsbridge
Co-Op city
Norwood
Bedford Park
Westchester Square
Allerton
Pelham Parkway
And whenever waves of "those" people move in a neighborhoods quality of life drops significantly. The thing that I worry is that the middle class will leave the neighborhood and people relocating from other areas in the Bronx will come and ruin it. And referring to what Andez said, the Bronx was going through its worst times during the 70's and 80's. Again that time was when "other" people began overruning once good neighborhoods.
It's not just a matter of those "other" people overrunning the neighborhood, you have to look at the state of the city, the economy, and what was going on in america at that time. And still to this day. It's really easy to blame a certain group of people for the destruction of a neighborhood, but it's not so easy for someone to do something about it.
I still stand by my comment that probably no neighborhood is DECLINING since 1990. That was a low point in the city in mostly every neighborhood in the city, regardless of the skin color of the people that lived there.
BaReSe,I think you put too much emphasis on color in your definition of " middle class".Most of the neighborhoods you list are still very much middle class,they are just no longer 90% white middle class.There is no evidence that these neighborhoods are "declining" at all, just getting less white and more black and hispanic ,which might be a good thing.90% anything neighborhoods don't do anyone any good in this day and age.
And I don't think cars or distance from public transportation = better class of people or anything else other than inconvenience.
I believe the 80 year olds in my neighborhood who have been living here for 50 years and think the neighborhood is actually better than it was 10 to 20 years ago.
The reality is that a lot of these neighborhoods may be getting more middle class.They used to be more blue collar and working class.In the 1970's my building(and this neighborhood) had a lot of garment workers and now it has a lot of teachers.Pelham Parkway was referred to as being populated by "the 7th Avenue gang" because the #2 SEVENTH AVENUE train took them to their jobs in the garment industry on SEVENTH AVENUE.Morris Park was probably filled with plumbers, electricians and low to mid level mafia operatives.Now it is populated with the kids of the plumbers, electricians and low to mid level mafia operatives who are teachers ,lawyers and accountants. Which is more middle class?
What evidence do you have that living standards have declined in neighborhoods where incomes, property values and the % of residents with college degrees and advanced degrees continues to rise and crime rates continue to fall ?
Not sure Morris Park is the best area of The Bronx either.It is nice but there are and always have been better areas like Riverdale,Woodlawn,Pelham Gardens,Indian Village and Country Club.
With the soaring gas prices, a declining auto industry and the economy tanking over in Ireland, there actually may be an increase of non Hispanic whites in some ( but not all )of these afore mentioned neighborhoods especially in the Bainbridge section of Norwood .Time will only tell.
Let me ask this, why does it seem that any time someone is looking for a safe and comfortable neighborhood to live in the Bronx the following neighborhoods are almost always mentioned: Country Club, Riverdale, Morris Park, Throgsneck, Pelham Bay, and sometimes Pelham Parkway? Why doesn’t someone recommend say 161st street around Yankee stadium? Its not the neighborhoods themselves that are bad, it’s the people that inhabit the neighborhood. And a prime example of what happens when a so called middle class neighborhood becomes majority minority is Co-Op city. Since the original residents left, they’ve had to install security cameras, issues with gun violence, etc. So I do believe what I’ve said holds some truth to it. And look at Allerton Avenue now. Its becoming worse and worse ever since its seen new immigrant growth. And when I say worse and worse I am referring to quality of life, graffiti, crime, property value, and so on. And I’m not prejudice, I’ve dated plenty of Puerto Rican and Dominican girls and I’m Italian. And all of them would rather live and spend time in my neighborhood rather than their own. They were from areas like Washington Heights, or the Grand Concourse. Even people of that ethnic group understand that if they become the majority that the area becomes undesirable. I am just worried that people from areas like Fordham, Castle Hill will start to spread over into Pelham Parkway. Everywhere surrounding Morris Park, Pelham Parkway is already finished meaning it’s all low income residents. For instance, Westchester Square, much more like an extension of Castle Hill rather than of Morris Park.
Let me ask this, why does it seem that any time someone is looking for a safe and comfortable neighborhood to live in the Bronx the following neighborhoods are almost always mentioned: Country Club, Riverdale, Morris Park, Throgsneck, Pelham Bay, and sometimes Pelham Parkway? Why doesn’t someone recommend say 161st street around Yankee stadium? Its not the neighborhoods themselves that are bad, it’s the people that inhabit the neighborhood. And a prime example of what happens when a so called middle class neighborhood becomes majority minority is Co-Op city. Since the original residents left, they’ve had to install security cameras, issues with gun violence, etc. So I do believe what I’ve said holds some truth to it. And look at Allerton Avenue now. Its becoming worse and worse ever since its seen new immigrant growth. And when I say worse and worse I am referring to quality of life, graffiti, crime, property value, and so on. And I’m not prejudice, I’ve dated plenty of Puerto Rican and Dominican girls and I’m Italian. And all of them would rather live and spend time in my neighborhood rather than their own. They were from areas like Washington Heights, or the Grand Concourse. Even people of that ethnic group understand that if they become the majority that the area becomes undesirable. I am just worried that people from areas like Fordham, Castle Hill will start to spread over into Pelham Parkway. Everywhere surrounding Morris Park, Pelham Parkway is already finished meaning it’s all low income residents. For instance, Westchester Square, much more like an extension of Castle Hill rather than of Morris Park.
we have debated this topic numerous times on this board. if you find me genetic/scientific proof that crime and downfall of a neighborhood is because of racial background then i will give you the benefit of the doubt. it is due to socioeconomic condtions....meaning lower income areas are more likely to have high crime, no matter the racial structure. because i can show you plenty well kept middle class BLACK neighborhoods in queens. tell me then why was brownsville a jewish slum in the 40s - 50s? and no offense to italians, but east new york was never a great neighborhood to begin with, and it was heavily italian at one point.
__________________
"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
Let me ask this, why does it seem that any time someone is looking for a safe and comfortable neighborhood to live in the Bronx the following neighborhoods are almost always mentioned: Country Club, Riverdale, Morris Park, Throgsneck, Pelham Bay, and sometimes Pelham Parkway? Why doesn’t someone recommend say 161st street around Yankee stadium? Its not the neighborhoods themselves that are bad, it’s the people that inhabit the neighborhood. And a prime example of what happens when a so called middle class neighborhood becomes majority minority is Co-Op city. Since the original residents left, they’ve had to install security cameras, issues with gun violence, etc. So I do believe what I’ve said holds some truth to it. And look at Allerton Avenue now. Its becoming worse and worse ever since its seen new immigrant growth. And when I say worse and worse I am referring to quality of life, graffiti, crime, property value, and so on. And I’m not prejudice, I’ve dated plenty of Puerto Rican and Dominican girls and I’m Italian. And all of them would rather live and spend time in my neighborhood rather than their own. They were from areas like Washington Heights, or the Grand Concourse. Even people of that ethnic group understand that if they become the majority that the area becomes undesirable. I am just worried that people from areas like Fordham, Castle Hill will start to spread over into Pelham Parkway. Everywhere surrounding Morris Park, Pelham Parkway is already finished meaning it’s all low income residents. For instance, Westchester Square, much more like an extension of Castle Hill rather than of Morris Park.
It's not a race thing, it's a MONEY THING.
It's not about black, brown, yellow... it's all about Green.
It's not about black, brown, yellow... it's all about Green.
Exactly, so glad this was pointed out by you and a few others. I've been lurking on this forum for a few weeks because I had a very bad living experience in the Bronx, moved to NJ and had an even worse experience, and now I'm looking to come back to the Bronx to be closer to family and church. While the threads have been extremely helpful, the prejudice and negative racial undertones of many responses I've seen throughout nearly every topic I read is downright sickening at times. Enough is enough already, and this thread started out so well with great info. Until we stop equating class with race, we're really wasting our time. Thanks for giving me another area to look into. Mod cut: sarcasm not necessary. Back into lurk mode.
Last edited by Viralmd; 10-08-2009 at 02:31 PM..
Reason: No need for the sarcasm.
called along Morris Pk Avenue west of White Plains Rd (by the BRP overpass) going toward E 180th street? was it Italian over there too? that looks declined.what is that area's history?
called along Morris Pk Avenue west of White Plains Rd (by the BRP overpass) going toward E 180th street? was it Italian over there too? that looks declined.what is that area's history?
Although it's Morris Park Ave,the area West of white Plains Rd is really West Farms. It's not really part of Morris Park and I'm not sure it's even part of Van Nest.Might have been an Irish,Jewish,Italian mix before the 70's.
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what is the area
