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I smell bologna. I'm fairly educated about Guyana and it's customs, cultures, traditions, politics, flora, flora fauna and geography. What does being American have to do with anything about my knowledge of a backwater pseudo Caribbean country in South America?
So are many people who will never claim to be Guyanese. Like them (and Prize Winner) you get your information second and third hand.
This from Prize Winner who praises Burnham for creating the black middle class. He screams that before Burnham there was no black middle class.
Funny you cannot find ONE thing that I say which praises Burnham, yet you give him full credit for the black middle class.
The black middle class grew BEFORE Burnham, and in fact Burnham DESTROYED IT!
He was a dictator and a very close friend of fidel Castro who was also his ally. Like all dictators, money is pocketed into some Swiss back account and never filtered back for the good of the general public. Guyana did have a black middle class but you ar. Right Burnham and his banning of certain goods from abroad and nationalism of industries help create the future mess for Guyana which its currently in. I was in Guyana recently. Guyana best times was when the British were around. Problem with Guyana is that they kicked out the white ruling class who fled to America and Britain.
You can engage in all the vulgarity as you wish but soca is Trinidadian and you really ought to stop stealing the people's music. You are embarrassing yourself. .Dominica has its OWN musical tradition and indeed aggressively protects these traditions from being usurped by reggae and soca, as happened in St Lucia. Dominicans DO NOT CONSIDER SOCA to be theirs!
Of course you're going to use a tactic of lying because thats all you can do, SOCA music started in the Anglo Caribbean period , you can't solely give credit to Trinidad thats all. Is that too much for you to follow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Other Caribbean nations have adapted soca to suit their own traditions, so soca today is no longer exclusively Trinidadian. But when last I check in 1975 soca was created in Trinidad when every one else was still doing old style calypso.
False you prove yourself a backward old timer stuck in his little hole, I just gave you ample examples of Dominican Cadence-Lypso and Zouk that was played in Dominica.In Barbados they played Spoogie, And Guyana was style doing Shanto.Other islands had their own style what the hell do you mean Soca was the music preferred among islanders in the 70s. And Soca was not the most transnational music style in the Anglo Caribbean islands, it was ''Reggae''. As a matter of fact Lord Shorty said he tried to make a new music in trinidad from Dominicans because many Trinidadians were into Reggae. Its no secret that Rastafarianism was big in West Indian countries in the late 60s and 70s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
The rest is your PPP rant. So I will leave that alone. If you believe that those gang of thieves are good for Guyana then that is up to you.
I note that you have this need to accuse black Guyanese of being a bunch of losers who only created a middle class in 1966. You then have the nerve to accuse me of being insecure of being black.
No YOU are the one who is insecure of being black while you VOMIT on all the hard work that many of them did as they dragged themselves and then their children into the middle class, that process beginning in the 1860s, and then accelerating after WWII. They did so in the face of massive discrimination at the hands of the British. And they must continue to do so in 2014 as the PPP displays the same callous contempt for them as did the British 100 years ago.
Even people like Freddie Kissoon and others concede that the PPP is every bit as guilty of racism against Afro Guyanese, as was the PNC under Burnham against Indo Guyanese!
Guyana has a rich FOLK tradition, which never evolved into a popular musical tradition unique to Guyana. Why? People like you who insist in stealing other people's music and then claiming it as Guyanese.
I don't accuse black Guyanese, I accuse the PNC, the ''two'' are not synonymous so stop trying to make it seem like they are one in the same.
When Burnham was in power he made attempts on many WPA members life like Eusi Kwayana stop with the bull. Its no secret that Walter Rodney has several attempts on his life by the Burnham regime.Even the black union workers opposed Burnham during the insidious issues involving Bauxite workers
Stop it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
If there is racial harmony in Guyana, i.e., that blacks didn't perceive that an Indian dominated government wasn't a threat to them, then why would intra racial divisions matter?
Obviously blacks do consider Indians a threat, which is why there are concerns about the intra racial divisions. And which is why 90% of them will vote APNU. This despite the internal squabbles which are now taking place.
In societies where there is racial harmony race ceases to be a social construct of importance, and so if people, who are classified within this construct, don't cooperate with each other than it will not matter, as people will be judged as INDIVIDUALS. One's membership in a "race" or ethnic group will be irrelevant.
It is societies where there are inter racial competition for resources that there is a need for these groups to mobilize, the fear being that if one group has internal divisions, this weakens its ability to compete.
Also ask yourself why did many of the blacks in the WPA who were beaten up by Burnham now join with the PNC in parliament today, instead of forming an alliance with the PPP? I am referring to people like David Hinds, who was almost killed by Burnham. And was VERY active with the WPA in the late 70s/early 80s.
You're a former PNC member posing and talking propaganda.
What Indian dominated government before the Burnham regime, Guyana was not independent before Authur Ching became president then Burnham became leader.
PNC members always play a race card because thats the only connection you have to some people,Amerindians don't trust PNC and neither did the Portuguese and Chinese.
As I asked why wasn't there economic prosperity under the Burnham and PNC regime , he inherited a way healthier economy than Jagan and PPP which to tell you the truth the economy was in shambles.
The blacks today did join with the PNC they joined APNU, shut up you know nothing. And many of these people in this APNU alliance are not PNC supporters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
This from Prize Winner who praises Burnham for creating the black middle class. He screams that before Burnham there was no black middle class.
Funny you cannot find ONE thing that I say which praises Burnham, yet you give him full credit for the black middle class.
The black middle class grew BEFORE Burnham, and in fact Burnham DESTROYED IT!
I didn't say he created the black middle class in fact its the contrary. What I was saying is that there were some blacks that were given more sector and civilians jobs but this wasn't to a successful avail because
many of these sectors faltered.
You are lying and saying that Burnham and the PNC had most of the support of blacks and he had many that objected to him including many popular Afro-Guyanese politicians.
Also ,get it through in your head most blacks don't vote APNU,TAFC is around because most blacks don't vote PNC , you can't be serious you didn't even know what APNU is 20 posts ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
He was a dictator and a very close friend of fidel Castro who was also his ally. Like all dictators, money is pocketed into some Swiss back account and never filtered back for the good of the general public. Guyana did have a black middle class but you ar. Right Burnham and his banning of certain goods from abroad and nationalism of industries help create the future mess for Guyana which its currently in. I was in Guyana recently. Guyana best times was when the British were around. Problem with Guyana is that they kicked out the white ruling class who fled to America and Britain.
Burnham was a dumb politician who figured he could kiss up to certain politicians and think he could get what he want from them. More like a ***** of a politicians Burnham was definitely mostly dedicated to western countries like Ford ,Carter's America and he also was big on dealing with the UK. The US and the UK saw he was dealing with left leaning countries like Cuba and decided he was a problem, that's why the Carter(USA) and OoA decided to implement fairer and more level grounded elections in Guyana.
Castro may be a dictator but he has helped so many countries in Latin America and elsewhere. Many of the Caribbean and Latin American doctors are trained in Cuba. Castros and Cubas reputation has allowed to get support from many countries in Latin America.
Last edited by PrizeWinner; 10-16-2014 at 08:02 PM..
OK you are clearly a troll. You know nothing about Guyana.
A little boy like you knows NOTHING, except your desire to bash blacks as a bunch of losers who only were able to progress under Burnham.
Big mouth and no facts. Typical wind bag.
So Amerindians rioted against the PNC because it was racist. Quite likely they were, but when black people rioted against the PPP in the early 60s they also said that the PPP WAS RACIST. A black basher like you of course will excuse the behavior of one, and not of the other.
BTW your heroine "blue eye bougie" used to rant that the PPP was in office, but not in power in the early 60s because most of the lower and middle level civil servants were black! Jagan in his piece of drivel called the "West on Trial" claimed that blacks were spoiled poodles and it was the Indian who suffered the worst of British colonialism.
Those who wrote this are no friends of black people. Note when the police force was already black. Long before Forbes Burnham. Yes I deliberately picked something written by one of your PPP friends.
Another article written by your PPP friends, indicating that there were black lawyers, and that a black middle class existed sufficiently to be a threat to the white power structure.
More from your PPP friend. Note that he describes the reluctance of Indians to be taught by the AFRICAN teachers. This in the 19th and early 20th C.
You will not bash Afro Guyanese. A cadre of them struggled mightily through the dark days of colonialism, so do NOT need to grovel and thank Burnham. When you claim that a black middle class didnt exist before Burnham, and that blacks were mere scab work on sugar estates YOU ARE SAYING THAT HE SAVED black people. Which he certainly didnt.'
Indeed Burnham HIMSELF is a product of this African middle class, his father being a HEAD MASTER of one of the primary schools in G/town.
That fact that I, according to you, am old gives me a sense of history that you obviously lack. Cheddi Jagan was the Premier and he and NOT the British, was responsible for the civil service. The ministers were appointed by him and it was the PPP which was responsible for the budget not the British. As a little boy you don't even know the significance of the song "Hit the road Jack" to Guyana in the early 60s!
It was the PPP which started race. Do you know what APAN JHAT means? No! Does that sound like something that the PNC would have created. NO! Indeed when Burnham left the PPP who took some Indians with him hoping to SPLIT the Indian vote. The PPP didn't care about whether it won black support or bot because it had the MAJORITY Indian vote.
Get it. Burnham could not win unless he split the Indian vote. Jagan could win even if he got ONLY the Indian vote.
Burnham was a monster who destroyed Guyana, but it was the PPP who introduced racial voting in Guyana when they ran through Indian areas warning them not to spilt the vote, under the slogan APAN JHAT!
The Chinese and Portuguese didn't trust Burnham but they preferred working with him than Cheddi. Remember these were the people who were the UF. The UF sided with the PNC, and it is only because of this that the PNC won in 1964.
So continue to think that the PPP weren't the ones who peddle the race vote due to the fact that Indians were the majority!
A black middle class existed long before 1966. Burnham did NOT create it. He DESTROYED IT! Only Burnham apologists like YOU insisted that he built it. Backed into a corner where your idiocy of implying that blacks didn't reach the middle class before Burnham, now you begin to admit that there was a black middle class prior to him. Our argument began with my assertion and your denial that a black middle class existed before independence!
Cadence comes out of the Afro French creole musical traditions of Dominica, Guadeloupe, and Martinique, influenced to some degree by Haiti. It has NOTHING to do with soca.
Soca arose around 1977 in TRINIDAD. It has NOTHING to do with Guyana. Soca developed in Trinidad when the traditional calypso was losing ground to funk. A harder base was added to cater to the young hence the term arising from "soul calypso".
Ras Shorty I was inspired by fusing Afro and Indo musical traditions. The link which you posted about cadence made NO reference to it serving as an inspiration for soca. Reggae had NOT reached Trinidad in a big way in the mid 70s. That happened in the 80s, and really more in the 90s. In the 70s Trinidadians were still too full of their oil wealth to attach any value to anything out of Jamaica, which was undergoing a very bad period at the time, and indeed had borrowed $$$ for T&T.
I challenge you to tell me which country in 1978 had soca music other than Trinidad! In those days Eastern Caribbean music was 85% Trinidad and 15% Antigua! Antigua as still a calypso island then. We knew (In Guyana and Trinidad and Barbados) NOTHING of Dominica music, which in those days flowed to the French Antilles, and to St Lucia, with Leeward Islanders being vaguely aware of it.
Reggae developed from a very different path from soca and the two didn't begin to intersect until the 90s, and indeed this is where ring bang developed. At this point dance hall had made major inroads into the Eastern Caribbean (even Trinidad) and soca once again had to adjust. Ring bang incorporating aspects of dance hall into soca. I was in Barbados in 1994 the very year that ring bang entered the public domain on that island. There was much conversation about its genesis and the fact that young Bajans and others were switching to dance hall.
Clearly you are a little kid with no sense of history. You grab bits and pieces from Wikipedia to graft on to your sense of Caribbean musical history which clearly doesn't begin until the 1990s. Any one knowledgeable about Caribbean music in the 70s knew that in the Eastern Caribbean Trinidad was dominant, and that it was US music and not reggae which was its threat. We knew some reggae songs here and there but it was soul, funk, and the disco, which was popular. Calypso, then soca, for the few months after Trinidad carnival.
I will only agree with him if he stated in 2014 that Trinidad no longer dominates soca because it produces nonsense.
But soca is Trinidadian by birth and it was dominated by them way into the 90s.
if trinidad produces non sense then all the islands produce non sense too
and jamaica produces non sense music too, all music is garbage now compared to its genesis
soca, reggae, calypso, dancehall, hip hop, pop etc
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