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Hi dracul,
You know, I can understand what you're talking about, that's kinda why I don't usually go into galleries.
But , there is some great art out there now, exciting and fresh.
I've been selling and buying art on eBay for a few years,and if you really look ,you can find some amazing stuff. And lots of artists and craftspeople are on Etsy, which is all handmade art and craft. And CRAFT, and tons of artists on blogs are selling art too. I love this, its great because as an artist, you don't have to be in a gallery to sell artwork. And I've sold to people in other countries as well.
There are so many cool art sites now and its not at all intimidating as going into some stuffy gallery.
I do totally agree with you as far as this goes,
Quote:
Art should be more than this superficial fare. It should excite and challenge the mind and spirit. It should evoke deep genuine emotion and perhaps intimidate. Art is brother to philosophy and sister to science. It should always be more than "shtick".
Egads Dracul. For some reason your comments brought up my puzzlement in the class I took last year called the "The End of Art." Hegel, Danto--I never could quite figure out what they meant. It still clatters around in my brain. something to do with "when art becomes aware of itself it is no longer art" using Warhol's Brillo box as an example.
I was making ceramic sculptures at the time--one assignment was to make a piece that was totally functional, one totally sculptural, and one combining the two using the same design elements. I spent days on the first piece--a chicken casserole using design elements from a Norwegian wood carved bowl (part of my heritage.) The second piece I did very simply (a slab bowl with the design carved into it) and by the last piece I was so sick of the design I threw together this chicken, shoved the lid on so you couldn't take it off, carved holes in it and threw some glaze on it--fired it a few times--had a good laugh doing it--lots of fun-- and called it "Kill the damn chicken!" My philosophy of art teacher loved it (I was going to stick it to rot under my outdoor porch steps) so I gave it to him. I saw him the next year and he said he had it up on his mantel at home and enjoyed it every day especially when people would come over and give it odd looks. I rarely call my stuff art--it's just something I have to do and I'm never quite certain what to do with the piece when done. Probably why I go back and forth from functional to sculptural--my favorite is to combine the two. I'm leaving a trail of pots wherever I go. Ceramic heads stuck in plants, an owl with a skeleton drawn on a pregnant belly that blew up in the kiln and another student put the head in a tree, and a very ugly chicken casserole that I had high hopes for is now under a bush in the woods outside the studio in WA. At least they decay eventually. hmmm..I wonder if I kept a picture of that damn chicken. I'm still a little puzzled why he liked it. Someday I'd like to take art philosophy and try figure out what Hegel meant. The Makah don't have a word for "art" in their language. Somehow I think that has something to do with the end of art idea. but maybe not.
This discussion is really the core problem of the modern artist isn't it?
Pay the bills and yet do meaningful [to self] work. Frankly most who do meaningful work are somehow otherwise supported - part time well paying jobs [food on table, pay bills = well paying] and art rest of the time. Full time art related job - usually means teaching, and or commercial design of some type. In the early '90's, working full time to pay the bills and buy art supplies, I directed and co-produced a video for Northern Il University on options available to fine artists. Options meant careers in art that blended jobs and artistic creation time.
The usual suspects were rounded up: art teacher, designer, graphics designer, video production [my choice], commercial photography, living from grant to grant, and having a spouse who had money.
There was one remaining individual who found a path that was low in conflicts of time and distraction, a potter who had a couple of lines of utilitarian ceramics - plates, bowls et cetera, and would do a 1-2 huge kiln loads 3-4 times a year. The rest of the time this person spent doing ceramic sculpture that was very strong, very personal, quite disturbing to most people. Few galleries and exhibitions took this work, but enough did to be encouraging. So on one hand nice, well priced utilitarian pots, on the other bold, creative sculpture in ceramics.
The number of successful totally 'true to their vision' artists who do nothing else is very small, and is part of the super artist myth. Myth because it is felt that we all can do this but the reality is there is only so much room in the market place for this degree of success. A quick analogy: how many kids want to be NBA stars, who actually think they can make it, who are recruited by colleges et cetera and encouraged to think this? What tiny fraction actually do get into the NBA? It's less than one percent. This holds true for artists and art schools.
Another couple of examples. I know an artist in a medium sized midwest city who does very wearable, very lovely jewelry, but it's the fine art equivalent of utilitarian pots. His passion, and genius, is merging ceramic sculpture with cast and fused glass. Amazing work, expensive to do, and very time consuming. But there is a balance in time, space and creative energy of the two.
One last one, which is the course i'm trying to hack out. Corporate 2d art, pleasant, not challenging, well designed and made [photography and printmaking] - it's paying the bills. And my personal passion of experimental digital printmaking, using some fairly funky materials, technique and imagery. Can I make this work in New Mexico after I leave Chicago? I hope so. I do know that New Mexico, with it's low population isn't enough of a market, I've got to keep and make new contacts in other places outside of there.
As someone said earlier, that often means travel for openings; other travel is kinda' built into this too. Going to the gallery initially, setting up the show, doing workshops, and on and on. If it's corporate, or public sculpture, meeting with committees and show the work, design proposals. I'm also building a website as a way to introduce galleries, interior designers, whatever, to other portfolios than the one they saw during my presentation. Getting the blend of fine art and corporate work has been a struggle mentally for me, but it will get there; anyway this is just another alternative.
We're still hoping for the Socorro area, but we'll see. Sell the house this year [crossing of fingers] for a good price, and rent there for awhile.
It still clatters around in my brain. something to do with "when art becomes aware of itself it is no longer art" using Warhol's Brillo box as an example.
I think this has to do with what the dada artists were into, I've always been intrigued by their anti-art philosophy. I like art that challenges what people think it should be. I like ambiguity.
Btw, I think the idea of you leaving bits of your pottery around different places is unique and truly great.
tcburns,
Quote:
In the early 'W's, working full time to pay the bills and buy art supplies, I directed and co-produced a video for Northern Il University on options available to fine artists. Options meant careers in art that blended jobs and artistic creation time.
I went to art school in the 70s and 80s and I wish there had been someone teaching that class then. Instead, we had no idea of what to do when we graduated, other than teach, & only if you were an art ed major. The art professors, (who, are still there!)didn't help us get into any galleries, shows, or even suggest what we could do. So, I have a BFA, wow, big deal.
It was before the graphic art classes & degrees that they have now. Thankfully, Now, art students have the opportunity to work in graphic art to make a living ,and still pursue fine art also.
Good luck with your course, and your printmaking. I hope you can make a go of it in NM, maybe the myth can become a reality! (for all of us!)
Good luck selling your house, we're doing it now, and maybe we'll lead the way! (and meet Dancingearth there too!)
I went to art school roughly '86-'92, and THE big all pervasive ideal was 'self-reference'. So art works that were not aware of being art works and didn't consist of being in the frame of art-about-art wasn't worth considering. Appears there was a big change of view points from '70's to 90's.
Personally I fought that attitude, it seemed to me, and still does, that meaningful works of fine art are intensely personal, that the artist's soul/heart/passion/obsession is the basis, not art that looks at it's own navel. I found that attitude to have slowly changed in visual arts over the years - the return of 'beauty' as worthwhile, the strong influence of self expression in one area growing into others, the slow decline of 'art is only art if it talks about art' position. Post-Modernism was very much about this latter point of view, in an ironical way, but was often empty of anything else other than theory about theory, which fairly well excluded the public and the needs of a lot of us.
Perhaps the best thing is to simply ignore the trends in art theory and the whole attitude of the gallery system, and just do what feels right in the creation of fine art.
My argument above of having a stable line of 'utilitarian' works just to have cash-flow doesn't have to be an empty exercise. What I've been trying to do is use that stuff to help me understand process, so that when I work on images that I feel strongly about I don't have to spend so much time on 'how-to-put-it-together' [process], but concentrate on content.
BTW the course was developed by and for a prof at the university, my cash flow was until this past winter in video production, since dumped, so i can concentrate on making art and 'working' the system! I worked in video and film from '79 until last year, and video was always about making money to support the art habit; perhaps not the best decision, as more time than was reasonable went into commercial production, less into visual art. Ah, hindsight!
*Now that the weather has broken and it's become Spring here, the energy to finish remodeling and get the house on the market grows. We both want out of Chicago, it's just become to much of a crush of the rude and inconsiderate, altogether just to much of a drain on energy.
Good luck to one and all.
Once you've made the jump to NM it'll be interesting to read what you've found Iriegirl.
tim
Excellent! Now we have a rather dialectic dialogue going! Fuel for the fires! I love to tweak things to fan the flames. Actually, tcburns, iriegirl and Dancingearth all make valid and cogent points. I also concur that the pablum commercial ventures are often necessary to keep the beans on the table. Besides, I'm not averse to doing wedding or special occasion portraiture to relieve the wealthier classes of some of their expendable capital...I've done it several times actually. Satisfying on several levels to be sure. Just never abandon your core instincts and proclivities. Find time to be you and to sing your song.
Personally I'd like to get rid of the "fine" in art. Who decides that? I love "folk" art.
earthy,
alive,
personal
It connects me to someone with a story--who did not care about making money from their creation. Maybe real art is created by someone who needs to create it --to express their voice no matter who sees it or pays for it. Is real art NOT created for money? Unlike today where you are not a "real" artist unless you make a living at it?
This piece shows my weird sense of humor. I came home after getting it out of the kiln and said to my housemate "I found a cockroach!" If someone dug it out of the trash after 200 years what would they think?
Last edited by Dancingearth; 04-07-2008 at 10:22 PM..
To me fine art means 'not for a client' just for the self, tho if someone is willing to pay me to do what I do...; folk art is art made outside the academically trained establishment and is often about heritage and culture, not so much the individual, and exists within a tradition. How I use the terms.
The folk artist is closest to the core tradition of art to me, as art was originally done as magical visualization - a way for the shaman of the tribe and individuals in the tribe to interpret and perhaps control the universe. Art as sacred 'ceremony'. Dance, music, adornment, storytelling, painting and figure making - the big six that we've carried for tens of thousands of years, perhaps hardwired into our genes. I personally feel all 'modern' art derives from some combination of these, we've just lost the gig of 'shaman' for the most part. Too bad, at least then we had a protected and respected place in the tribe!
Yep, have gone to even the wedding level to pick-up some cash [shudders], but I'd rather do work for a business - better pay, way more control of product.
@Dracul - I too enjoy relieving the wealthy of their burdensome coin LOL.
You got it right tcburns!!! ...and Dancingearth I luv that roach plate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks. I just brought home more from the kiln. It's like Christmas only better when the kiln is fired. One bowl that I thought would be blue and brown (from the glazes I used) turned out blue and white. I think even my housemate enjoys the kiln unveiling. Right now I'm drinking from a mug with a scorpion on it. Has a funky two finger handle on it. The walls could be a little more even but I like it. I am so hooked on this clay.
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I rarely call my stuff art--it's just something I have to do and I'm never quite certain what to do with the piece when done. Probably why I go back and forth from functional to sculptural--my favorite is to combine the two. I'm leaving a trail of pots wherever I go. Ceramic heads stuck in plants, an owl with a skeleton drawn on a pregnant belly that blew up in the kiln and another student put the head in a tree, and a very ugly chicken casserole that I had high hopes for is now under a bush in the woods outside the studio in WA. At least they decay eventually. hmmm..I wonder if I kept a picture of that damn chicken. I'm still a little puzzled why he liked it. Someday I'd like to take art philosophy and try figure out what Hegel meant. The Makah don't have a word for "art" in their language. Somehow I think that has something to do with the end of art idea. but maybe not.
